Beginner's Guide to NetRexx
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Re: Beginner's Guide to NetRexx
 
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On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Patrick Forhan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> For a REXX track: > - lightly talk on the differences and similarities between REXX and > NetRexx. Show side-by-side code here, too, if possible. +1 for everything he said. :) FC _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Robert L Hamilton
On 3 November 2010 08:42, Robert Hamilton <[hidden email]> wrote: Can't tweet, won't tweet!But when I check noformat do I get formatted JAVA or do I get UNFormatted JAVA. When I check NoComments I get Comments. This is illogical to me; maybe not to JAVA people. At the risk of adding more to the confusion; noformat and nocomments have absolutely nothing to do with Java. They look like NetRexx OPTIONS to me: and I'm not sure what you're "checking" here. Is it part of the NetRexxScript jEdit add-on? Alan. -- _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email]
Alan
-- Needs more cowbell. |
Re: Beginner's Guide to NetRexx
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In reply to this post by Robert L Hamilton
Bob,
The label reads "Select default Compiler Options to be overridden". So when you select to override 'noformat' you effectively get 'format'. Same applies to 'nocomments' which is the default. If you override 'nocomments' you get 'comments'. I admit this is somewhat confusing. This comes from the original NetRexxJe code and I never got to change it as I didn't want to confuse even more the users that were used to this behaviour in previous revisions. --- Saludos / Kind regards. David Requena El 03/11/2010 16:42, Robert Hamilton escribió: But when I check noformat do I get formatted JAVA or do I get UNFormatted JAVA. When I check NoComments I get Comments. This is illogical to me; maybe not to JAVA people. _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by alansam
On 3 November 2010 09:24, Alan Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
I should qualify what I just stated: noformat and nocomments have absolutely nothing to do with the Java language. Java people wouldn't know what they are either. -- Can't tweet, won't tweet! _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email]
Alan
-- Needs more cowbell. |
Re: Beginner's Guide to NetRexx
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In reply to this post by Patrick Forhan
Patrick,
I've argued that Java programmers are a natural constituency for NetRexx, and I find your thoughts on attracting them to be of the utmost importance. Please try to keep track of your reactions as you explore NetRexx as you will soon loose your "naive" viewpoint. Kermit's effort seems to me to be directed at the non-Java programmer. My own gut feeling is that Java programmers need a different track, and that it would be misguided to try to produce a document that is all things to all men. It would frustrate some and bore others. George On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Patrick Forhan <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Beginner's Guide to NetRexx
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In reply to this post by David Requena
Hello David,
as far as I do know NOFORMAT is the default, and can be overwritten by option -format. Thomas. ============================================================= Am 03.11.2010 13:56, schrieb David Requena: Yes, Bob --
Thomas Schneider Projects ReyC & LOGOS on www.KENAI.com _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email]
Tom. (ths@db-123.com)
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Re: Beginner's Guide to NetRexx
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In reply to this post by alansam
It's in the DE plugin. In jEDIT\NetrexxDE\set compiler options Tab and I check noCOmments to Get Comments from NetRexx into JAVA\Keep; This seems weird. . .
Bobh On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Alan Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Beginner's Guide to NetRexx
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In reply to this post by alansam
Alan,
These two options control the java output from the NetRexx compiler! --- Saludos / Kind regards. David Requena El 03/11/2010 17:24, Alan Sampson escribió:
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Re: Beginner's Guide to NetRexx
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In reply to this post by Thomas.Schneider.Wien
--- Saludos / Kind regards. David Requena El 03/11/2010 17:29, Thomas Schneider escribió: Hello David, _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
Re: Beginner's Guide to NetRexx
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In reply to this post by George Hovey-2
Well, if we're trying to build up something like a wiki, it would make
sense to craft individual pages for the target audience. I think they can still be a coherent whole, but you are right that one document would be too much. Wikia is a decent host for lots of projects wanting a wiki, though they display ads. I'd also be fine hosting a wiki or a Wordpress instance on muddyhorse.com, too, even if only temporarily. Dreamhost makes it a simple matter of two or three clicks to get a subdomain up and running so it's no skin off my back. Pat. On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 11:28 AM, George Hovey <[hidden email]> wrote: > Patrick, > I've argued that Java programmers are a natural constituency for NetRexx, > and I find your thoughts on attracting them to be of the utmost importance. > Please try to keep track of your reactions as you explore NetRexx as you > will soon loose your "naive" viewpoint. > > Kermit's effort seems to me to be directed at the non-Java programmer. My > own gut feeling is that Java programmers need a different track, and that it > would be misguided to try to produce a document that is all things to all > men. It would frustrate some and bore others. > George > > On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Patrick Forhan <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> >> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Kermit Kiser <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >> > I took a stab at a very crude draft for the first page or two of a >> > beginners >> > guide. >> >> I read through your revised document, and it is definitely moving in >> the right direction. I'm a long-time Java programmer who used to >> script REXX code on a MUSIC/SP system. I'm sad to say I haven't done >> anything serious with NetRexx, but I've been watching it for years >> now. >> >> So, I am a newcomer to the language still. I'm not entirely sure who >> your audience is for this guide, however. If you are trying to >> attract Java developers, it's definitely too chatty and is missing >> some common terms that they would recognize. If it is for REXX folks, >> it seems to pay little heed to the older language. Perhaps that's >> what the first page should be: a quick description of the language, >> followed by links to sections or other pages with titles like "NetRexx >> for Java/JVM Developers" and "NetRexx for REXX developers". Maybe one >> for folks new to programming if we have the time. >> >> OK, some things to consider: >> General: >> - I'd recommend getting to the Hello World code sooner. Perhaps even >> without mentioning that it is powered by the JVM. >> - You've misspelled "imbedded" (should start with an E) >> - recommend one "Hello, XX" sample where you read from args or >> standard in and use that value in the output. Just another common >> sample program. The say URL... example is great. >> >> For a Java track: >> - I'd collapse a lot of the description text into a simple summary: >> NetRexx is a JVM language. This is common parlance for Java >> developers, and instantly brings with it a wealth of information. The >> Java Libraries are available, it's deployable as JAR files, etc. You >> could also say it is a language that targets the JVM. It's worth >> mentioning, in passing, that the compiler can emit java code. >> - We should discuss whether this is a scripting language (can >> interpret new rexx code at runtime), a compiler, or both. Examples in >> the java world would be BeanShell as an interpreted scripting >> language, Groovy as both interpreted or compiled. >> - Especially in cases where you're highlighting the terse readability >> of NetRexx, show the equivalent java code side-by-side. This should >> show some big wins. >> - So, while NetRexx interoperates with Java just fine, the language >> of the guide seems a bit charged, e.g., "Why NetRexx instead of Java". >> This should be reworded along the lines of "how to integrate NetRexx >> into your project". Many projects are polyglot in this fashion. >> - discuss performance implications of things like automatic >> conversions, etc, if noteworthy. >> - discuss the typing system - dynamic (an object's type is based on >> what was last assigned to it) or static >> >> For a REXX track: >> - lightly talk on the differences and similarities between REXX and >> NetRexx. Show side-by-side code here, too, if possible. >> >> -- >> Defy mediocrity. >> _______________________________________________ >> Ibm-netrexx mailing list >> [hidden email] >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > > > -- Defy mediocrity. _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by David Requena
Kermit,
I'm disappointed to see that, despite my earlier comment, you seem intent on revising history to suit your personal preference. While many may see this as a small point, it does worry me that your motivation on this document may not strictly be for the benefit of the user. I again suggest that you remove inappropriate personal bias from the document. If you wish to document your opinion on the matter of symbols and indention, that is fine, but the first few pages of a Beginners Guide is certainly not the place! Connor. _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Fernando Cassia-2
Hi Fernando -
Could you clarify that request slightly? Exactly what would you like to know how to do? -- Kermit On 11/3/2010 6:49 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote: > On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 4:58 AM, Kermit Kiser<[hidden email]> wrote: >> I took a stab at a very crude draft for the first page or two of a beginners >> guide. Does anyone else want to try or does anyone have any simple examples >> showing what NetRexx can do or how it works with Java? What areas need to be >> discussed for newcomers? The Java libraries? IDEs? Objects (OO)? Scripting? >> Tracing? Parsing? Indexing? > Web page scrapping. :) > With sugar on top, please. :) > > FC > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > > > Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Patrick Forhan
Thanks for the input Patrick.
At this time, the audience for this document seems to be those who have little to no experience with NetRexx and Java and perhaps little experience with programming generally. I can see the value of separate tracks for Java programmers and for Rexx programmers, but I doubt that I would have the time or background to create them. This track seems difficult enough. Perhaps it could serve as a springboard to produce more such tracks. We will need a WIKI location first, I think. -- Kermit On 11/3/2010 7:51 AM, Patrick Forhan wrote: > On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Kermit Kiser<[hidden email]> wrote: >> I took a stab at a very crude draft for the first page or two of a beginners >> guide. > I read through your revised document, and it is definitely moving in > the right direction. I'm a long-time Java programmer who used to > script REXX code on a MUSIC/SP system. I'm sad to say I haven't done > anything serious with NetRexx, but I've been watching it for years > now. > > So, I am a newcomer to the language still. I'm not entirely sure who > your audience is for this guide, however. If you are trying to > attract Java developers, it's definitely too chatty and is missing > some common terms that they would recognize. If it is for REXX folks, > it seems to pay little heed to the older language. Perhaps that's > what the first page should be: a quick description of the language, > followed by links to sections or other pages with titles like "NetRexx > for Java/JVM Developers" and "NetRexx for REXX developers". Maybe one > for folks new to programming if we have the time. > > OK, some things to consider: > General: > - I'd recommend getting to the Hello World code sooner. Perhaps even > without mentioning that it is powered by the JVM. > - You've misspelled "imbedded" (should start with an E) > - recommend one "Hello, XX" sample where you read from args or > standard in and use that value in the output. Just another common > sample program. The say URL... example is great. > > For a Java track: > - I'd collapse a lot of the description text into a simple summary: > NetRexx is a JVM language. This is common parlance for Java > developers, and instantly brings with it a wealth of information. The > Java Libraries are available, it's deployable as JAR files, etc. You > could also say it is a language that targets the JVM. It's worth > mentioning, in passing, that the compiler can emit java code. > - We should discuss whether this is a scripting language (can > interpret new rexx code at runtime), a compiler, or both. Examples in > the java world would be BeanShell as an interpreted scripting > language, Groovy as both interpreted or compiled. > - Especially in cases where you're highlighting the terse readability > of NetRexx, show the equivalent java code side-by-side. This should > show some big wins. > - So, while NetRexx interoperates with Java just fine, the language > of the guide seems a bit charged, e.g., "Why NetRexx instead of Java". > This should be reworded along the lines of "how to integrate NetRexx > into your project". Many projects are polyglot in this fashion. > - discuss performance implications of things like automatic > conversions, etc, if noteworthy. > - discuss the typing system - dynamic (an object's type is based on > what was last assigned to it) or static > > For a REXX track: > - lightly talk on the differences and similarities between REXX and > NetRexx. Show side-by-side code here, too, if possible. > Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by David Requena
David -
I know what those options mean and why the interface shows them that way, but it still confuses the h*** out of me! I recommend scrapping that panel and building a completely new interface to set those options. -- Kermit On 11/3/2010 9:26 AM, David Requena wrote: Bob, _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by FreeFall
Connor ;
Perhaps you are misreading the document. It is not a history lesson and I am trying my best to remove any such references other than the accidental one due to giving Mike proper credit. If we get the document into a WIKI, then perhaps you can rewrite things for historical accuracy. It's no skin off my nose! -- Kermit On 11/3/2010 11:40 AM, Connor Birch wrote: Kermit, _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
Re: Beginner's Guide to NetRexx
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In reply to this post by Kermit Kiser
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Kermit Kiser <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Fernando - > > Could you clarify that request slightly? Exactly what would you like to know > how to do? I´m just saying that in this age of web-enabled apps, a sample code snippet for requesting HTML from a remote URL (ie http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/87582.html ) and parsing the received html using rexx / netrexx to obtain the current temperature, would be of great help. Most language tutorials in the 1990s focused on local files. These days, most apps get data from the "cloud". FC _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
Re: Beginner's Guide to NetRexx
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On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Fernando Cassia <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Kermit Kiser <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi Fernando - >> >> Could you clarify that request slightly? Exactly what would you like to know >> how to do? > > I´m just saying that in this age of web-enabled apps, a sample code > snippet for requesting HTML from a remote URL (ie > http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/87582.html ) and parsing > the received html using rexx / netrexx to obtain the current > temperature, would be of great help. > > Most language tutorials in the 1990s focused on local files. These > days, most apps get data from the "cloud". Ten years ago, I wrote this... "It´s all about web-enabling, baby!" http://www.os2ezine.com/20000916/webenabling.html FC _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
Re: Beginner's Guide to NetRexx
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In reply to this post by Kermit Kiser
Agreed.
It confuses even me to the point I usually leave all of them at defaults and set desired options in my sources. It's even worse due to mixed enabled/disable defaults. I think Satguru did it like this because it's trivial in code to get at options and append them to the compiler command line this way. The whole UI is being reworked now and this is one of the things changing. From now on, options panel will be a list of affirmative option descriptions with a checkbox like: - Emit formatted java code - Move comments to java code - Display compiler logo - Display compilation time information - etc Default enabled options will initially be checked while default disabled ones will be unchecked. My be a "Set defaults" button will also be there. Hope that makes for a much clearer user interface to options selection. Of course suggestions are welcome. That said I personally prefer setting compiler options in source code as this makes it less likely to have broken compilations in a different environment with disparate options set. In particular binary/nobinary tend to cause lots of issues in this regard. --- Saludos / Kind regards. David Requena El 03/11/2010 21:43, Kermit Kiser escribió: David - _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Fernando Cassia-2
Fernando --
The code for reading the HTML content is slightly more complex and I am not sure that it is appropriate for an introduction, but I have added it for the purpose of discussion. Here is that code: pagereader=BufferedReader(InputStreamReader(InputStream URL(arg).getcontent ))I am not sure if the data you want is actually in the high level page you mentioned as it seems to be a lot of Javascript code, but if it is there, it should be fairly easy to add a parse and check to the above snippet to find it. -- Kermit On 11/3/2010 1:59 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote: On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Kermit Kiser [hidden email] wrote:Hi Fernando - Could you clarify that request slightly? Exactly what would you like to know how to do?I´m just saying that in this age of web-enabled apps, a sample code snippet for requesting HTML from a remote URL (ie http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/87582.html ) and parsing the received html using rexx / netrexx to obtain the current temperature, would be of great help. Most language tutorials in the 1990s focused on local files. These days, most apps get data from the "cloud". FC _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by David Requena
That sounds great! Do the Options settings in the source code
override the ones in the panel?
On 11/3/2010 3:29 PM, David Requena wrote: Agreed. _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
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