NetRexx V3.01 Read.Me.First Install Instructions Experience
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NetRexx V3.01 Read.Me.First Install Instructions Experience
 
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Hi
As some of you know, I fit the profile of a naive NetRexx user, or for that matter Java user. My feedback here is meant to be useful and for no other reason. I downloaded V3.01 from the NetRexx.org website, and I am following the read.me.first file Step 1. My installed Java says: java version "1.7.0_13" Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_13-b20) Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 23.7-b01, mixed mode) Step 1 complete Step 2. Classpath. Let me stop here, and offer up my thanks for understanding that non-java users don't know that a classpath points to a jar file, and not the directory that a jar files is in. Very explicit, "full path and filename of the lib/NetRexxC.jar". Since I didn't have a classpath, I'll create one. CLASSPATH=/Users/bjskelly/NetRexx/Home/lib/NetRexxC.jar Step 2 complete. Step 3. My comment here would be to remove the '/' (forward slash) from /bin, i.e. "perhaps the bin directory in your home directory". Ok I just added it to my path. export JAVA_HOME=`/usr/bin/java_home` which resolves to /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_13.jdk/Contents/Home export NETREXX_HOME=~/NetRexx/Home export PATH=$PATH:$NETREXX_HOME/bin Step 3 complete. Step 4. tools.jar. Can't find a tools.jar on my system. Can't find the Apple Java equivalent Classes.jar. Turns out that tools.jar is part of the Java JDK, and not part of Java JRE. Ok back to Oracle to download the JDK. Maybe step one should have been javac -version rather than java -version? Javac now says: javac 1.7.0_13 Adding tools.jar to my classpath. export CLASSPATH=$NETREXX_HOME/lib/NetRexxC.jar:$JAVA_HOME/lib/tools.jar Step 4 complete. Step 5 cd to he executables dir (I saw a note about changing this to the bin dir). It totally escapes me as to why one would want to do this. There is no hello.nrx in this directory. None the the commands being issued are located in this directory. If the intent was to pickup some sort of executable from this directory, it won't work on UNIX/Linux unless the user has already added the directory to their path, or has a path that include the current directory. None the less: java org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC ../examples/ibm-historic/hello NetRexx portable processor, version NetRexx 3.01RC2, build 1-20110925-2337 Copyright (c) RexxLA, 2011. All rights reserved. Parts Copyright (c) IBM Corporation, 1995,2008. Program hello.nrx Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: sun/tools/javac/Main at org.netrexx.process.RxTranslator.compile(RxTranslator.nrx:618) at org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC.process(NetRexxC.nrx:239) at org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC.main2(NetRexxC.nrx:165) at org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC.main2(NetRexxC.nrx:154) at org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC.main2(NetRexxC.nrx:152) at org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC.main(NetRexxC.nrx:91) Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: sun.tools.javac.Main at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:366) at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:355) at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:354) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:423) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:356) ... 6 more Step 5 -- Fail. I don't see any instructions regarding runlib or NetRexxR.jar. I guess that's about it for now. Bruce _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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Hi Bruce,
thanks for your email. The documentation will only get better if more people try to follow the recipe. Some comments: 3) I thought about this and explaining between fileseparators on windows and unix will be even more confusing I think. I might just repeat the chapter for every platform with judicious use of TeX macro's. 4) You don't need the SDK/JDK, JRE is fine if you run the ecj compiler that is included. I agree that Oracle muddled the issue by forcing downloads of the JRE without telling that it is only the JRE (where Mac users always had a JDK as a standard. 5) Yes, this is still missing a valid tools.jar on the classpath. Easy to solve with ecj-4.2.jar on the classpath and -d nrx.compiler=ecj on the commandline. This will also work on a JRE install. I will try to capture as much of this as possible in the Quickstart Guide. best regards, René. On 15 feb. 2013, at 16:49, Bruce Skelly <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi > > As some of you know, I fit the profile of a naive NetRexx user, or for that matter Java user. My feedback here is meant to be useful and for no other reason. > > I downloaded V3.01 from the NetRexx.org website, and I am following the read.me.first file > > Step 1. > My installed Java says: > java version "1.7.0_13" > Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_13-b20) > Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 23.7-b01, mixed mode) > Step 1 complete > > Step 2. > Classpath. Let me stop here, and offer up my thanks for understanding that non-java users don't know that a classpath points to a jar file, and not the directory that a jar files is in. Very explicit, "full path and filename of the lib/NetRexxC.jar". Since I didn't have a classpath, I'll create one. > CLASSPATH=/Users/bjskelly/NetRexx/Home/lib/NetRexxC.jar > Step 2 complete. > > Step 3. > My comment here would be to remove the '/' (forward slash) from /bin, i.e. "perhaps the bin directory in your home directory". > Ok I just added it to my path. > export JAVA_HOME=`/usr/bin/java_home` which resolves to /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_13.jdk/Contents/Home > export NETREXX_HOME=~/NetRexx/Home > export PATH=$PATH:$NETREXX_HOME/bin > Step 3 complete. > > Step 4. > tools.jar. Can't find a tools.jar on my system. Can't find the Apple Java equivalent Classes.jar. Turns out that tools.jar is part of the Java JDK, and not part of Java JRE. Ok back to Oracle to download the JDK. Maybe step one should have been javac -version rather than java -version? > Javac now says: > javac 1.7.0_13 > Adding tools.jar to my classpath. > export CLASSPATH=$NETREXX_HOME/lib/NetRexxC.jar:$JAVA_HOME/lib/tools.jar > Step 4 complete. > > Step 5 > cd to he executables dir (I saw a note about changing this to the bin dir). It totally escapes me as to why one would want to do this. There is no hello.nrx in this directory. None the the commands being issued are located in this directory. If the intent was to pickup some sort of executable from this directory, it won't work on UNIX/Linux unless the user has already added the directory to their path, or has a path that include the current directory. None the less: > java org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC ../examples/ibm-historic/hello > NetRexx portable processor, version NetRexx 3.01RC2, build 1-20110925-2337 > Copyright (c) RexxLA, 2011. All rights reserved. > Parts Copyright (c) IBM Corporation, 1995,2008. > Program hello.nrx > Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: sun/tools/javac/Main > at org.netrexx.process.RxTranslator.compile(RxTranslator.nrx:618) > at org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC.process(NetRexxC.nrx:239) > at org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC.main2(NetRexxC.nrx:165) > at org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC.main2(NetRexxC.nrx:154) > at org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC.main2(NetRexxC.nrx:152) > at org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC.main(NetRexxC.nrx:91) > Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: sun.tools.javac.Main > at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:366) > at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:355) > at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) > at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:354) > at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:423) > at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:356) > ... 6 more > Step 5 -- Fail. > > I don't see any instructions regarding runlib or NetRexxR.jar. > > I guess that's about it for now. > > Bruce > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ > _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
Re: NetRexx V3.01 Read.Me.First Install Instructions Experience
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Bruce,
Warm thanks for a much needed splash of cold water on installation issues. Unfortunately, the more you know about this system, the less aware you become of how it looks to a new user. Getting the instructions right will be difficult, but NetRexx won't succeed without it. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:24 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Bruce, -- "One can live magnificently in this world if one knows how to work and how to love." -- Leo Tolstoy _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
Re: NetRexx V3.01 Read.Me.First Install Instructions Experience
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In reply to this post by rvjansen
Hi René,
Is the command 'java_home' UNIX/Linux only? It would seem to me that using java_home to help set up the environment would be the way to be sure that you get the default active java installation. Also checking for the existence of javac, would provide a decision point where the user could be provided direction to download the JDK, or use the eclipse compiler. Also, I don't understand the configuration of java on Mac OS (specifically Lion). /usr/bin/java is a link to /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/java, while java_home points to /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_13.jdk/Contents/Home So while it appears that java, javac, and tools.jar are all the same version (1.7.0_13) they are coming from two different directory trees. Could this be the reasons that I can't find a valid tools.jar? Perhaps different builds of the same version? I still don't understand the purpose of changing directory to /bin or bin or what ever. The hello.nrx isn't in the directory, which is implied in the instructions and none of the commands (shell scripts or bat files ) in that directory are used in the given command. Bruce |
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Hi Bruce,
the command is MacOSX only. I have no clue why it cannot find tools.jar. Something must be off. You only need that for the compile, and that you can do using ecj. The changing to the bin directory must be taken entirely, it serves no purpose and on some systems it is not writable either. I will have the test look for another source. best regards, René. On 16 feb. 2013, at 18:11, Bruce Skelly <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi René, > > Is the command 'java_home' UNIX/Linux only? It would seem to me that using > java_home to help set up the environment would be the way to be sure that > you get the default active java installation. > > Also checking for the existence of javac, would provide a decision point > where the user could be provided direction to download the JDK, or use the > eclipse compiler. > > Also, I don't understand the configuration of java on Mac OS (specifically > Lion). > > /usr/bin/java is a link to > /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/java, > while java_home points to > /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_13.jdk/Contents/Home > > So while it appears that java, javac, and tools.jar are all the same version > (1.7.0_13) they are coming from two different directory trees. Could this be > the reasons that I can't find a valid tools.jar? Perhaps different builds > of the same version? > > I still don't understand the purpose of changing directory to /bin or bin or > what ever. The hello.nrx isn't in the directory, which is implied in the > instructions and none of the commands (shell scripts or bat files ) in that > directory are used in the given command. > > Bruce > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/NetRexx-V3-01-Read-Me-First-Install-Instructions-Experience-tp4026315p4026319.html > Sent from the ibm-netrexx mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ > _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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Hi Bruce,
'must be taken OUT' is what I meant. In the meantime I did that and revision 325 reflects the change. Note that trunk/documentation/ug/NetRexx Quickstart Guide 3.02.pdf contains the new version, please check that and see if there is more to correct. The read.me.first is also corrected and two superfluous mentions of this test in the Quikstart Guide have been taken out. I am afraid we will only solve this difficulty for new users when we are using other api to start or have the installer figure this out for us. best regards, René. On 16 feb. 2013, at 22:46, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > the command is MacOSX only. > > I have no clue why it cannot find tools.jar. Something must be off. You only need that for the compile, and that you can do using ecj. > > The changing to the bin directory must be taken entirely, it serves no purpose and on some systems it is not writable either. I will have the test look for another source. > > best regards, > > René. > > On 16 feb. 2013, at 18:11, Bruce Skelly <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Hi René, >> >> Is the command 'java_home' UNIX/Linux only? It would seem to me that using >> java_home to help set up the environment would be the way to be sure that >> you get the default active java installation. >> >> Also checking for the existence of javac, would provide a decision point >> where the user could be provided direction to download the JDK, or use the >> eclipse compiler. >> >> Also, I don't understand the configuration of java on Mac OS (specifically >> Lion). >> >> /usr/bin/java is a link to >> /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/java, >> while java_home points to >> /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_13.jdk/Contents/Home >> >> So while it appears that java, javac, and tools.jar are all the same version >> (1.7.0_13) they are coming from two different directory trees. Could this be >> the reasons that I can't find a valid tools.jar? Perhaps different builds >> of the same version? >> >> I still don't understand the purpose of changing directory to /bin or bin or >> what ever. The hello.nrx isn't in the directory, which is implied in the >> instructions and none of the commands (shell scripts or bat files ) in that >> directory are used in the given command. >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/NetRexx-V3-01-Read-Me-First-Install-Instructions-Experience-tp4026315p4026319.html >> Sent from the ibm-netrexx mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ibm-netrexx mailing list >> [hidden email] >> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ > _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
Re: NetRexx V3.01 Read.Me.First Install Instructions Experience
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Well, I did get every thing working eventually. I was going to add my learnings to the document and send it to you. It turns out one of my problems had to do with the Mac OS X implementation of ~/Library/Java/Extensions I had an old version of NetRexxC.jar and NetRexxR.jar that I think were getting invoked a head of the classpath jars. Also my faulty understanding of classpath.
Bruce
On Feb 17, 2013, at 1:33 PM, rvjansen [via ibm-netrexx] wrote: Hi Bruce, |
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Don't feel alone, Bruce. I, too, had a steep learning curve on this Windoze box and my mac at home.
I know you are mac user but I am not at my mac right now so here the script I use here to look at my path and classpath. You should be able to mangle it to run on Lion. echo off :: @echo. %0 :: type %0 set holding.file.tmp=%random%.%0.tmp @echo. %path% > %holding.file.tmp% @echo. @echo. "This is a nice list of your path at the moment:" @echo. for /F "usebackq eol=^ tokens=1-26* delims=;" %%a in (`type %holding.file.tmp%`) do ( if NOT "%%a"=="" echo. %%a if NOT "%%b"=="" echo. %%b if NOT "%%c"=="" echo. %%c if NOT "%%d"=="" echo. %%d if NOT "%%e"=="" echo. %%e if NOT "%%f"=="" echo. %%f if NOT "%%g"=="" echo. %%g if NOT "%%h"=="" echo. %%h if NOT "%%i"=="" echo. %%i if NOT "%%j"=="" echo. %%j if NOT "%%k"=="" echo. %%k if NOT "%%l"=="" echo. %%l if NOT "%%m"=="" echo. %%m if NOT "%%n"=="" echo. %%n if NOT "%%o"=="" echo. %%o if NOT "%%p"=="" echo. %%p if NOT "%%q"=="" echo. %%q if NOT "%%r"=="" echo. %%r if NOT "%%s"=="" echo. %%s if NOT "%%t"=="" echo. %%t if NOT "%%u"=="" echo. %%u if NOT "%%v"=="" echo. %%v if NOT "%%w"=="" echo. %%w if NOT "%%x"=="" echo. %%x if NOT "%%y"=="" echo. %%y if NOT "%%z"=="" echo. %%z ) @echo. %classpath% > %holding.file.tmp% @echo. @echo. "This is a nice list of your classpath at the moment:" @echo. for /F "usebackq eol=^ tokens=1-26* delims=;" %%a in (`type %holding.file.tmp%`) do ( if NOT "%%a"=="" echo. %%a if NOT "%%b"=="" echo. %%b if NOT "%%c"=="" echo. %%c if NOT "%%d"=="" echo. %%d if NOT "%%e"=="" echo. %%e if NOT "%%f"=="" echo. %%f if NOT "%%g"=="" echo. %%g if NOT "%%h"=="" echo. %%h if NOT "%%i"=="" echo. %%i if NOT "%%j"=="" echo. %%j if NOT "%%k"=="" echo. %%k if NOT "%%l"=="" echo. %%l if NOT "%%m"=="" echo. %%m if NOT "%%n"=="" echo. %%n if NOT "%%o"=="" echo. %%o if NOT "%%p"=="" echo. %%p if NOT "%%q"=="" echo. %%q if NOT "%%r"=="" echo. %%r if NOT "%%s"=="" echo. %%s if NOT "%%t"=="" echo. %%t if NOT "%%u"=="" echo. %%u if NOT "%%v"=="" echo. %%v if NOT "%%w"=="" echo. %%w if NOT "%%x"=="" echo. %%x if NOT "%%y"=="" echo. %%y if NOT "%%z"=="" echo. %%z ) @echo. @echo. Done. @echo. del %holding.file.tmp% I recomment you master the understanding of classpath early on. Pay attention to the various ways various programs and platforms try to figure out what your classpath is and then tailor it to their needs. Sometime ugly. Something like the above script can make it easier. Programs like jEdit have options for changing it on-the-fly. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruce Skelly Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:26 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] NetRexx V3.01 Read.Me.First Install Instructions Experience Well, I did get every thing working eventually. I was going to add my learnings to the document and send it to you. It turns out one of my problems had to do with the Mac OS X implementation of ~/Library/Java/Extensions I had an old version of NetRexxC.jar and NetRexxR.jar that I think were getting invoked a head of the classpath jars. Also my faulty understanding of classpath. Bruce On Feb 17, 2013, at 1:33 PM, rvjansen [via ibm-netrexx] wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > 'must be taken OUT' is what I meant. In the meantime I did that and revision 325 reflects the change. Note that trunk/documentation/ug/NetRexx Quickstart Guide 3.02.pdf contains the new version, please check that and see if there is more to correct. The read.me.first is also corrected and two superfluous mentions of this test in the Quikstart Guide have been taken out. > > I am afraid we will only solve this difficulty for new users when we are using other api to start or have the installer figure this out for us. > > best regards, > > René. > > On 16 feb. 2013, at 22:46, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Hi Bruce, > > > > the command is MacOSX only. > > > > I have no clue why it cannot find tools.jar. Something must be off. You only need that for the compile, and that you can do using ecj. > > > > The changing to the bin directory must be taken entirely, it serves no purpose and on some systems it is not writable either. I will have the test look for another source. > > > > best regards, > > > > René. > > > > On 16 feb. 2013, at 18:11, Bruce Skelly <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > >> Hi René, > >> > >> Is the command 'java_home' UNIX/Linux only? It would seem to me > >> that using java_home to help set up the environment would be the > >> way to be sure that you get the default active java installation. > >> > >> Also checking for the existence of javac, would provide a decision > >> point where the user could be provided direction to download the > >> JDK, or use the eclipse compiler. > >> > >> Also, I don't understand the configuration of java on Mac OS > >> (specifically Lion). > >> > >> /usr/bin/java is a link to > >> /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Comman > >> ds/java, > >> while java_home points to > >> /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_13.jdk/Contents/Home > >> > >> So while it appears that java, javac, and tools.jar are all the > >> same version > >> (1.7.0_13) they are coming from two different directory trees. > >> Could this be the reasons that I can't find a valid tools.jar? > >> Perhaps different builds of the same version? > >> > >> I still don't understand the purpose of changing directory to /bin > >> or bin or what ever. The hello.nrx isn't in the directory, which > >> is implied in the instructions and none of the commands (shell > >> scripts or bat files ) in that directory are used in the given command. > >> > >> Bruce > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> View this message in context: > >> http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/NetRexx-V3-01-Read-Me-First > >> -Install-Instructions-Experience-tp4026315p4026319.html > >> Sent from the ibm-netrexx mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ibm-netrexx mailing list > >> [hidden email] > >> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > > [hidden email] > > Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ > > > > If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below: > http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/NetRexx-V3-01-Read-Me-First-Install-Instructions-Experience-tp4026315p4026321.html > To start a new topic under ibm-netrexx, email [hidden email] > To unsubscribe from NetRexx V3.01 Read.Me.First Install Instructions Experience, click here. > NAML -- View this message in context: http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/NetRexx-V3-01-Read-Me-First-Install-Instructions-Experience-tp4026315p4026322.html Sent from the ibm-netrexx mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by rvjansen
I don't know anything about the Mac OS, but *even on Windows* the Java
tools.jar *is* on the improper place delivered! You have to copy (or better MOVE) the tools.jar from it's original place to the proper \lib\ext directory! As mentioned *several times*, the ...\lib\ext\ directory is the *only place*, where *jars* shall reside, and, as also mentioned sveral times, it's the only way to *avoid* all those very *ugly* classpath problems! So, why (the hell, sorry to shout loud again!) do you all *insist* for the *ancient classpath solution* ? It did, and does, cause only: *A lot of problems*! End of (as always: unwanted) interruption. There is a quite clear Java document (quite old) available where extensions have to be put: Into ...\lib\ext (as xxx.jar) Tested so many times, from my side: No need then to change and/or add anything to the *classpath*! Quod scripsi scripsi! Quod dixi, dixi! (Pure old Latin) What I did write, I did write! What I did say, I did say! When we shall be so stringent to eliminate the *or's* in the installation guide, things might me become simpler, wouldn't they ? Full stop, for now, but again! Massa Thomas. ======================================================================= Am 16.02.2013 22:46, schrieb René Jansen: > Hi Bruce, > > the command is MacOSX only. > > I have no clue why it cannot find tools.jar. Something must be off. You only need that for the compile, and that you can do using ecj. > > The changing to the bin directory must be taken entirely, it serves no purpose and on some systems it is not writable either. I will have the test look for another source. > > best regards, > > René. > > On 16 feb. 2013, at 18:11, Bruce Skelly <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Hi René, >> >> Is the command 'java_home' UNIX/Linux only? It would seem to me that using >> java_home to help set up the environment would be the way to be sure that >> you get the default active java installation. >> >> Also checking for the existence of javac, would provide a decision point >> where the user could be provided direction to download the JDK, or use the >> eclipse compiler. >> >> Also, I don't understand the configuration of java on Mac OS (specifically >> Lion). >> >> /usr/bin/java is a link to >> /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/java, >> while java_home points to >> /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_13.jdk/Contents/Home >> >> So while it appears that java, javac, and tools.jar are all the same version >> (1.7.0_13) they are coming from two different directory trees. Could this be >> the reasons that I can't find a valid tools.jar? Perhaps different builds >> of the same version? >> >> I still don't understand the purpose of changing directory to /bin or bin or >> what ever. The hello.nrx isn't in the directory, which is implied in the >> instructions and none of the commands (shell scripts or bat files ) in that >> directory are used in the given command. >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/NetRexx-V3-01-Read-Me-First-Install-Instructions-Experience-tp4026315p4026319.html >> Sent from the ibm-netrexx mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ibm-netrexx mailing list >> [hidden email] >> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ >> > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ > > -- Thomas Schneider, IT Consulting; http://www.thsitc.com; Vienna, Austria, Europe _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
Thomas Schneider, Vienna, Austria (Europe) :-)
www.thsitc.com www.db-123.com |
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Hi Rene,
; at least, after looking at my english-german dictionary, I do have now learned what the english term *stubborn* does mean ;-) I do have *no idea* why you did not answer your reply to the whole group, sucjh I'm copying my reply. You all, of course, do *know* much more about NetRexx and Java subtles than I do. What I did *hate*, since I did start with computers, long time ago, by the way, was to *have two alternatives* to do the same thing. It's, from my experience, a *pitfall* for *new users*, as they will not know which way to go. Thus, maybe, the solution might be to have the *recommended way to go* in the README File, only, and add a section *Advanced Usages* at the end. My (final) reply on this topic is: Include in the README the *recommended procedure* ONLY, one, and only one, recommended by www.netrexx.org. Same in the quickstart guide! Don't, please, expect, that people trying to use NetRexx, a human oriented language, to be Java EXPERTS! Java EXPERTS shall continue to use pure Java, and never shall start to learn NetRexx for their usage, when they are already *comfortable* in their knowledge of Java. NetRexx shall adress those many people *not wanting* to learn Java with all it's (very powerful) details. Ok, for all: That is *my point of view*, of course, only, it is *not more important* than your view, at all. Having said that, i *promise* I will never bring up that point again .... (unless I'm already getting Alzheimer and do forget what I did promise). One of the principles I did learn, long time ago, has been named: KISS! (Keep it Simple, Stupid!) Having said that, I'm now *leaving* this and any other decisions to the more *knowledgebale* people than me, and would *only recommend* to make the *Quick start* as easy as Possible, for a NetRexx novice at least. . Thomas. PS: Thus, including the ecj-compiler in NetRexxC.jar, by default, might help to go into the right direction, I do (personally) think! 2 MB are peanuts, nowadays, even on any smart phone! PPS: Or, maybe, www.netrexx.org shall make *different NetRexxC.jar's* available for the various platforms ? ================================================================================== ================================================================================== Am 19.02.2013 14:18, schrieb René Jansen: > Thomas, > > please don't be stubborn; the fact that it works for you does not mean it is the best place. In 3.02 some of the reasons that \lib\ext is inadvisable have been taken away, but there are still plenty left. > The Quickstart Guide still lists it as a deprecated piece of advice. The order is: > > 1) as a -cp option on the java command (this is what Oracle seems to recommend) - we might have the installer put this in > 2) the classpath environment variable > 3) the extensions directory > > The reasons that we do not recommend this are stated in numerous other places. > > best regards, > > René. > > > > On 19 feb. 2013, at 02:20, Thomas Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> I don't know anything about the Mac OS, but *even on Windows* the Java tools.jar *is* on the improper place >> delivered! >> >> You have to copy (or better MOVE) the tools.jar from it's original place to the proper \lib\ext directory! >> >> As mentioned *several times*, the ...\lib\ext\ directory is the *only place*, where *jars* shall reside, >> and, as also mentioned sveral times, it's the only way to *avoid* all those very *ugly* classpath problems! >> >> So, why (the hell, sorry to shout loud again!) do you all *insist* for the *ancient classpath solution* ? >> >> It did, and does, cause only: *A lot of problems*! >> >> End of (as always: unwanted) interruption. >> >> There is a quite clear Java document (quite old) available where extensions have to be put: >> >> Into ...\lib\ext (as xxx.jar) >> >> Tested so many times, from my side: >> >> No need then to change and/or add anything to the *classpath*! >> >> Quod scripsi scripsi! Quod dixi, dixi! (Pure old Latin) >> What I did write, I did write! What I did say, I did say! >> >> When we shall be so stringent to eliminate the *or's* in the installation guide, >> things might me become simpler, wouldn't they ? >> >> Full stop, for now, but again! >> Massa Thomas. >> ======================================================================= >> Am 16.02.2013 22:46, schrieb René Jansen: >>> Hi Bruce, >>> >>> the command is MacOSX only. >>> >>> I have no clue why it cannot find tools.jar. Something must be off. You only need that for the compile, and that you can do using ecj. >>> >>> The changing to the bin directory must be taken entirely, it serves no purpose and on some systems it is not writable either. I will have the test look for another source. >>> >>> best regards, >>> >>> René. >>> >>> On 16 feb. 2013, at 18:11, Bruce Skelly <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi René, >>>> >>>> Is the command 'java_home' UNIX/Linux only? It would seem to me that using >>>> java_home to help set up the environment would be the way to be sure that >>>> you get the default active java installation. >>>> >>>> Also checking for the existence of javac, would provide a decision point >>>> where the user could be provided direction to download the JDK, or use the >>>> eclipse compiler. >>>> >>>> Also, I don't understand the configuration of java on Mac OS (specifically >>>> Lion). >>>> >>>> /usr/bin/java is a link to >>>> /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/java, >>>> while java_home points to >>>> /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_13.jdk/Contents/Home >>>> >>>> So while it appears that java, javac, and tools.jar are all the same version >>>> (1.7.0_13) they are coming from two different directory trees. Could this be >>>> the reasons that I can't find a valid tools.jar? Perhaps different builds >>>> of the same version? >>>> >>>> I still don't understand the purpose of changing directory to /bin or bin or >>>> what ever. The hello.nrx isn't in the directory, which is implied in the >>>> instructions and none of the commands (shell scripts or bat files ) in that >>>> directory are used in the given command. >>>> >>>> Bruce >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> View this message in context: http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/NetRexx-V3-01-Read-Me-First-Install-Instructions-Experience-tp4026315p4026319.html >>>> Sent from the ibm-netrexx mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Thomas Schneider, IT Consulting; http://www.thsitc.com; Vienna, Austria, Europe > -- Thomas Schneider, IT Consulting; http://www.thsitc.com; Vienna, Austria, Europe _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
Thomas Schneider, Vienna, Austria (Europe) :-)
www.thsitc.com www.db-123.com |
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Thomas,
a small test did show me that the reply only went to you because you cc:ed me on a mail to the list; this is superfluous (I read the list) and leads to this unwanted result, for reasons known to the developer of the mail agent. Only one way: if it were that simple, we would not bother with the alternatives. I agree that there must be a 'try this first, it will work' variant. I lean more and more to packaging ecj into a NetRexxFull.jar - it will eliminate the number one error that most users encounter. This will add one jar to the distribution, which can be deleted by everyone who does not need this. I see the advantage of this setup; but I am fairly sure the problem will then move to the point where someone tries to call another class in the same directory without a . in the classpath, or has to use a package in another jar. But indeed, that can count as 'advanced' and will enable anyone to try some small examples without running into trouble. best regards, René. On 20 feb. 2013, at 14:13, Thomas Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Rene, > > ; at least, after looking at my english-german dictionary, I do have now learned what the english term *stubborn* > does mean ;-) > > I do have *no idea* why you did not answer your reply to the whole group, sucjh I'm copying my reply. > > You all, of course, do *know* much more about NetRexx and Java subtles than I do. > > What I did *hate*, since I did start with computers, long time ago, by the way, was to *have two alternatives* > to do the same thing. It's, from my experience, a *pitfall* for *new users*, as they will not know which way to go. > > Thus, maybe, the solution might be to have the *recommended way to go* in the README File, only, > and add a section *Advanced Usages* at the end. > > My (final) reply on this topic is: > > Include in the README the *recommended procedure* ONLY, one, and only one, recommended by > www.netrexx.org. > > Same in the quickstart guide! > > Don't, please, expect, that people trying to use NetRexx, a human oriented language, to be Java EXPERTS! > > Java EXPERTS shall continue to use pure Java, and never shall start to learn NetRexx for their usage, > when they are already *comfortable* in their knowledge of Java. > > NetRexx shall adress those many people *not wanting* to learn Java with all it's (very powerful) details. > > Ok, for all: > > That is *my point of view*, of course, only, it is *not more important* than your view, at all. > > Having said that, i *promise* I will never bring up that point again .... > (unless I'm already getting Alzheimer and do forget what I did promise). > > One of the principles I did learn, long time ago, has been named: KISS! (Keep it Simple, Stupid!) > > Having said that, I'm now *leaving* this and any other decisions to the more *knowledgebale* people than me, > and would *only recommend* to make the *Quick start* as easy as Possible, for a NetRexx novice at least. . > > Thomas. > > PS: Thus, including the ecj-compiler in NetRexxC.jar, by default, might help to go into the right direction, > I do (personally) think! 2 MB are peanuts, nowadays, even on any smart phone! > PPS: Or, maybe, www.netrexx.org shall make *different NetRexxC.jar's* available for the various platforms ? > ================================================================================== > ================================================================================== > Am 19.02.2013 14:18, schrieb René Jansen: >> Thomas, >> >> please don't be stubborn; the fact that it works for you does not mean it is the best place. In 3.02 some of the reasons that \lib\ext is inadvisable have been taken away, but there are still plenty left. >> The Quickstart Guide still lists it as a deprecated piece of advice. The order is: >> >> 1) as a -cp option on the java command (this is what Oracle seems to recommend) - we might have the installer put this in >> 2) the classpath environment variable >> 3) the extensions directory >> >> The reasons that we do not recommend this are stated in numerous other places. >> >> best regards, >> >> René. >> >> >> >> On 19 feb. 2013, at 02:20, Thomas Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> I don't know anything about the Mac OS, but *even on Windows* the Java tools.jar *is* on the improper place >>> delivered! >>> >>> You have to copy (or better MOVE) the tools.jar from it's original place to the proper \lib\ext directory! >>> >>> As mentioned *several times*, the ...\lib\ext\ directory is the *only place*, where *jars* shall reside, >>> and, as also mentioned sveral times, it's the only way to *avoid* all those very *ugly* classpath problems! >>> >>> So, why (the hell, sorry to shout loud again!) do you all *insist* for the *ancient classpath solution* ? >>> >>> It did, and does, cause only: *A lot of problems*! >>> >>> End of (as always: unwanted) interruption. >>> >>> There is a quite clear Java document (quite old) available where extensions have to be put: >>> >>> Into ...\lib\ext (as xxx.jar) >>> >>> Tested so many times, from my side: >>> >>> No need then to change and/or add anything to the *classpath*! >>> >>> Quod scripsi scripsi! Quod dixi, dixi! (Pure old Latin) >>> What I did write, I did write! What I did say, I did say! >>> >>> When we shall be so stringent to eliminate the *or's* in the installation guide, >>> things might me become simpler, wouldn't they ? >>> >>> Full stop, for now, but again! >>> Massa Thomas. >>> ======================================================================= >>> Am 16.02.2013 22:46, schrieb René Jansen: >>>> Hi Bruce, >>>> >>>> the command is MacOSX only. >>>> >>>> I have no clue why it cannot find tools.jar. Something must be off. You only need that for the compile, and that you can do using ecj. >>>> >>>> The changing to the bin directory must be taken entirely, it serves no purpose and on some systems it is not writable either. I will have the test look for another source. >>>> >>>> best regards, >>>> >>>> René. >>>> >>>> On 16 feb. 2013, at 18:11, Bruce Skelly <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi René, >>>>> >>>>> Is the command 'java_home' UNIX/Linux only? It would seem to me that using >>>>> java_home to help set up the environment would be the way to be sure that >>>>> you get the default active java installation. >>>>> >>>>> Also checking for the existence of javac, would provide a decision point >>>>> where the user could be provided direction to download the JDK, or use the >>>>> eclipse compiler. >>>>> >>>>> Also, I don't understand the configuration of java on Mac OS (specifically >>>>> Lion). >>>>> >>>>> /usr/bin/java is a link to >>>>> /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/java, >>>>> while java_home points to >>>>> /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_13.jdk/Contents/Home >>>>> >>>>> So while it appears that java, javac, and tools.jar are all the same version >>>>> (1.7.0_13) they are coming from two different directory trees. Could this be >>>>> the reasons that I can't find a valid tools.jar? Perhaps different builds >>>>> of the same version? >>>>> >>>>> I still don't understand the purpose of changing directory to /bin or bin or >>>>> what ever. The hello.nrx isn't in the directory, which is implied in the >>>>> instructions and none of the commands (shell scripts or bat files ) in that >>>>> directory are used in the given command. >>>>> >>>>> Bruce >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> View this message in context: http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/NetRexx-V3-01-Read-Me-First-Install-Instructions-Experience-tp4026315p4026319.html >>>>> Sent from the ibm-netrexx mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thomas Schneider, IT Consulting; http://www.thsitc.com; Vienna, Austria, Europe >> > > > -- > Thomas Schneider, IT Consulting; http://www.thsitc.com; Vienna, Austria, Europe _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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Ok, Rene, then I *do understand* why I did get only your very valid
response! I think, NetRexxF..jar is a good intermediate solution! I only think that there should be some DOD batch and Linux/Unix shell scripts readily be made available for the *novice* user (when possible) By the way, I'm now closing this issue (from my side) as most of the details actually do escape my current Java and NetRexxC knowledge, sorry to say. Thanks for reacting, to all, anyway! Thomas. =============================================================================== Am 21.02.2013 00:11, schrieb René Jansen: > Thomas, > > a small test did show me that the reply only went to you because you cc:ed me on a mail to the list; this is superfluous (I read the list) and leads to this unwanted result, for reasons known to the developer of the mail agent. > > Only one way: if it were that simple, we would not bother with the alternatives. I agree that there must be a 'try this first, it will work' variant. I lean more and more to packaging ecj into a NetRexxFull.jar - it will eliminate the number one error that most users encounter. This will add one jar to the distribution, which can be deleted by everyone who does not need this. > > I see the advantage of this setup; but I am fairly sure the problem will then move to the point where someone tries to call another class in the same directory without a . in the classpath, or has to use a package in another jar. But indeed, that can count as 'advanced' and will enable anyone to try some small examples without running into trouble. > > best regards, > > René. > > On 20 feb. 2013, at 14:13, Thomas Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Hi Rene, >> >> ; at least, after looking at my english-german dictionary, I do have now learned what the english term *stubborn* >> does mean ;-) >> >> I do have *no idea* why you did not answer your reply to the whole group, sucjh I'm copying my reply. >> >> You all, of course, do *know* much more about NetRexx and Java subtles than I do. >> >> What I did *hate*, since I did start with computers, long time ago, by the way, was to *have two alternatives* >> to do the same thing. It's, from my experience, a *pitfall* for *new users*, as they will not know which way to go. >> >> Thus, maybe, the solution might be to have the *recommended way to go* in the README File, only, >> and add a section *Advanced Usages* at the end. >> >> My (final) reply on this topic is: >> >> Include in the README the *recommended procedure* ONLY, one, and only one, recommended by >> www.netrexx.org. >> >> Same in the quickstart guide! >> >> Don't, please, expect, that people trying to use NetRexx, a human oriented language, to be Java EXPERTS! >> >> Java EXPERTS shall continue to use pure Java, and never shall start to learn NetRexx for their usage, >> when they are already *comfortable* in their knowledge of Java. >> >> NetRexx shall adress those many people *not wanting* to learn Java with all it's (very powerful) details. >> >> Ok, for all: >> >> That is *my point of view*, of course, only, it is *not more important* than your view, at all. >> >> Having said that, i *promise* I will never bring up that point again .... >> (unless I'm already getting Alzheimer and do forget what I did promise). >> >> One of the principles I did learn, long time ago, has been named: KISS! (Keep it Simple, Stupid!) >> >> Having said that, I'm now *leaving* this and any other decisions to the more *knowledgebale* people than me, >> and would *only recommend* to make the *Quick start* as easy as Possible, for a NetRexx novice at least. . >> >> Thomas. >> >> PS: Thus, including the ecj-compiler in NetRexxC.jar, by default, might help to go into the right direction, >> I do (personally) think! 2 MB are peanuts, nowadays, even on any smart phone! >> PPS: Or, maybe, www.netrexx.org shall make *different NetRexxC.jar's* available for the various platforms ? >> ================================================================================== >> ================================================================================== >> Am 19.02.2013 14:18, schrieb René Jansen: >>> Thomas, >>> >>> please don't be stubborn; the fact that it works for you does not mean it is the best place. In 3.02 some of the reasons that \lib\ext is inadvisable have been taken away, but there are still plenty left. >>> The Quickstart Guide still lists it as a deprecated piece of advice. The order is: >>> >>> 1) as a -cp option on the java command (this is what Oracle seems to recommend) - we might have the installer put this in >>> 2) the classpath environment variable >>> 3) the extensions directory >>> >>> The reasons that we do not recommend this are stated in numerous other places. >>> >>> best regards, >>> >>> René. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 19 feb. 2013, at 02:20, Thomas Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> I don't know anything about the Mac OS, but *even on Windows* the Java tools.jar *is* on the improper place >>>> delivered! >>>> >>>> You have to copy (or better MOVE) the tools.jar from it's original place to the proper \lib\ext directory! >>>> >>>> As mentioned *several times*, the ...\lib\ext\ directory is the *only place*, where *jars* shall reside, >>>> and, as also mentioned sveral times, it's the only way to *avoid* all those very *ugly* classpath problems! >>>> >>>> So, why (the hell, sorry to shout loud again!) do you all *insist* for the *ancient classpath solution* ? >>>> >>>> It did, and does, cause only: *A lot of problems*! >>>> >>>> End of (as always: unwanted) interruption. >>>> >>>> There is a quite clear Java document (quite old) available where extensions have to be put: >>>> >>>> Into ...\lib\ext (as xxx.jar) >>>> >>>> Tested so many times, from my side: >>>> >>>> No need then to change and/or add anything to the *classpath*! >>>> >>>> Quod scripsi scripsi! Quod dixi, dixi! (Pure old Latin) >>>> What I did write, I did write! What I did say, I did say! >>>> >>>> When we shall be so stringent to eliminate the *or's* in the installation guide, >>>> things might me become simpler, wouldn't they ? >>>> >>>> Full stop, for now, but again! >>>> Massa Thomas. >>>> ======================================================================= >>>> Am 16.02.2013 22:46, schrieb René Jansen: >>>>> Hi Bruce, >>>>> >>>>> the command is MacOSX only. >>>>> >>>>> I have no clue why it cannot find tools.jar. Something must be off. You only need that for the compile, and that you can do using ecj. >>>>> >>>>> The changing to the bin directory must be taken entirely, it serves no purpose and on some systems it is not writable either. I will have the test look for another source. >>>>> >>>>> best regards, >>>>> >>>>> René. >>>>> >>>>> On 16 feb. 2013, at 18:11, Bruce Skelly <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi René, >>>>>> >>>>>> Is the command 'java_home' UNIX/Linux only? It would seem to me that using >>>>>> java_home to help set up the environment would be the way to be sure that >>>>>> you get the default active java installation. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also checking for the existence of javac, would provide a decision point >>>>>> where the user could be provided direction to download the JDK, or use the >>>>>> eclipse compiler. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, I don't understand the configuration of java on Mac OS (specifically >>>>>> Lion). >>>>>> >>>>>> /usr/bin/java is a link to >>>>>> /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/java, >>>>>> while java_home points to >>>>>> /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_13.jdk/Contents/Home >>>>>> >>>>>> So while it appears that java, javac, and tools.jar are all the same version >>>>>> (1.7.0_13) they are coming from two different directory trees. Could this be >>>>>> the reasons that I can't find a valid tools.jar? Perhaps different builds >>>>>> of the same version? >>>>>> >>>>>> I still don't understand the purpose of changing directory to /bin or bin or >>>>>> what ever. The hello.nrx isn't in the directory, which is implied in the >>>>>> instructions and none of the commands (shell scripts or bat files ) in that >>>>>> directory are used in the given command. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bruce >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> View this message in context: http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/NetRexx-V3-01-Read-Me-First-Install-Instructions-Experience-tp4026315p4026319.html >>>>>> Sent from the ibm-netrexx mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Thomas Schneider, IT Consulting; http://www.thsitc.com; Vienna, Austria, Europe >> >> -- >> Thomas Schneider, IT Consulting; http://www.thsitc.com; Vienna, Austria, Europe > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ > > -- Thomas Schneider, IT Consulting; http://www.thsitc.com; Vienna, Austria, Europe _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
Thomas Schneider, Vienna, Austria (Europe) :-)
www.thsitc.com www.db-123.com |
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