Netrexx as perceived by others
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An InfoWorld article on July 14, 2010, entitled "Top five scripting Languages on the JVM": http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/top-five-scripting-languages-the-jvm-855?page=0,0
After covering two popular ones, and three niche players, he briefly covers Netrexx at the end, concluding that despite some good qualities it no longer has an active user base. Hugh -- _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
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"Finally, NetRexx was the original scripting language for the JVM. Developed by IBM, it is based on the high-level Rexx language. Although IBM made NetRexx available for free, it was never open sourced. Rumors that IBM will open the source have swirled throughout much of its lifetime, but there has been little confirmation of that. Despite being a remarkably well-thought-out scripting idiom -- that can be either compiled or interpreted -- NetRexx has languished. IBM updated it exactly twice since its release in 1997, and as a result, it no longer has an active user base." On 7/14/2010 8:19 PM, Hugh Sweeney wrote: An InfoWorld article on July 14, 2010, entitled "Top five scripting Languages on the JVM": http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/top-five-scripting-languages-the-jvm-855?page=0,0 _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
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Interesting - I am not sure that I subscribe to the theory that you
need to update a language regularly to establish a user base. In fact, for me, the stability, bug free nature, and robust defence against problems introduced by new versions made me quite fond of it. I know of no rumour about its open sourcing previous to the official announcement by IBM and RexxLA in 2008. And you have to take my word for it, it is going to be open source. The open sourcing of a programming language is no easy task in a world of software patents, litigation around Linux and contributions to it. We (IBM and RexxLA) are making sure that this happens in the right way, to ensure the longevity of the language, for its user base. I am not worried about user base. Like you cannot force a person to love you, it is hard to grow a user base by stating merits, doing marketing and propaganda or other forms of showing how insanely great it is. When we look back at programming languages, it is a history of very much of the same thing, and most of the time, perceived successes had nothing to do with inherent quality. More importantly, it has nothing to do with the status of the open sourcing. Object Rexx, in itself a brilliant language, has been open sourced for years, but neither can it count a large user base as a measure of its success. What I do know however, is that anyone who tries it, and especially those who have a history that is broader than C, C++ and Java, finds it a very worthwhile tool of expression, that yields programs of very high performance. I cannot do without it, and we, in IBM and RexxLA, are making sure, at this very moment, that we never have to do without it. best regards, René Vincent Jansen. On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:44 AM, Bill Fenlason <[hidden email]> wrote: > Here is the appropriate quote from the article: > > "Finally, NetRexx was the original scripting language for the JVM. Developed > by IBM, it is based on the high-level Rexx language. Although IBM made > NetRexx available for free, it was never open sourced. Rumors that IBM will > open the source have swirled throughout much of its lifetime, but there has > been little confirmation of that. Despite being a remarkably > well-thought-out scripting idiom -- that can be either compiled or > interpreted -- NetRexx has languished. IBM updated it exactly twice since > its release in 1997, and as a result, it no longer has an active user base." > > On 7/14/2010 8:19 PM, Hugh Sweeney wrote: > > An InfoWorld article on July 14, 2010, entitled "Top five scripting > Languages on the JVM": > http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/top-five-scripting-languages-the-jvm-855?page=0,0 > > After covering two popular ones, and three niche players, he briefly covers > Netrexx at the end, concluding that despite some good qualities it no longer > has an active user base. > > Hugh > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3005 - Release Date: 07/14/10 > 14:36:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > > > _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
Re: Netrexx as perceived by others
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On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:00 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tell that to IBM. They applied that philosophy with its 32-bit OS/2, an insanely great OS, with dumb or at times non-existing marketing. It did wonders to promote the platform. (not!). But I digress... FC PS: I´ve seen the python guys engage in anti-Java propaganda (or pro-Python prograganda, as one wants to see it) by stating how much easier it is to program in Python rather than in Java. I don´t see anybody in the Netrexx camp promoting the virtues of a language that runs on top of the Java VM and how easy it is to program in Netrexx compared to (insert other language here). When I talk about Netrexx on different mailing lists, the feedback I get is that 99.99% of the time people just hasn´t ever heard about it. _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
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yes, OS/2 was good, and still is running here and there. I remember
typing in a Dutch translation of a new error message into its source code (E-Com Station) some years ago at the Rexx Symposium. To make it on-topic, I recently found NetRexx 0.50, which had its compiler as a tokenized Rexx program for OS/2, right before it was bootstrapped to NetRexx itself. Unfortunately, OS/2 will not be open source, as I understood that there are way too much components originated or owned by other parties than IBM. I will have to go through a pile of CD's that I have in storage to see if I can unearth any other early version of NetRexx that might be of historic interest. Fernando, I see that you are a journalist and have a blog. Let's start to work on some easy to digest articles that might be used (and reused, occasionally), to sell the virtues of NetRexx. Knowing South America a little bit (and I would not pretend that I know it too well) I can imagine that it would be good if we had Spanish versions also. I have the same experience when it comes to other people on other mailing lists, but I am less active on those nowadays (just too busy) and I am sure to only mention it in passing, because I can imagine how annoying it must be when someone mentions the same hobby horse over and over again. But let me reiterate, the glass is half full, not half empty, and the future is bright and shiny. Except for us losing the world cup final for the third time, after losing it twice to you guys and the Germans some thirty years ago. best regards, René. On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Fernando Cassia <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:00 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Like you cannot force a person to >> love you, it is hard to grow a user base by stating merits, doing >> marketing and propaganda or other forms of showing how insanely great >> it is. > > Tell that to IBM. They applied that philosophy with its 32-bit OS/2, an > insanely great OS, with dumb or at times non-existing marketing. > > It did wonders to promote the platform. (not!). But I digress... > > FC > > PS: I´ve seen the python guys engage in anti-Java propaganda (or pro-Python > prograganda, as one wants to see it) by stating how much easier it is to > program in Python rather than in Java. I don´t see anybody in the Netrexx > camp promoting the virtues of a language that runs on top of the Java VM and > how easy it is to program in Netrexx compared to (insert other language > here). When I talk about Netrexx on different mailing lists, the feedback I > get is that 99.99% of the time people just hasn´t ever heard about it. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > > > _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
Re: Netrexx as perceived by others
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Rene, thanks for the pep talk. I've been fearing the demise of NetRexx ever since I began to grasp what it is (it has been my sole development language since 2001). Your remarks for the first time gave me an inkling of what stands in the way of open sourcing NetRexx.
On an unrelated note: I'd like to single out concatenation by adjacency as one of NetRexx's more important features. It encourages production of clean displays and interactions partly because the output that will be produced is much more evident from casual perusal of the source than is the case with, say, C. Perhaps some such thought could be incorporated into whatever replaces the IBM Red Book. George On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:25 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote: yes, OS/2 was good, and still is running here and there. I remember _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] |
Re: Netrexx as perceived by others
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In reply to this post by billfen
*Just in **contrast**
Rene Vincent Jansen, there in the *Netherlands* is working *very hard* to get IBM-NetRexx open sourced.... As always, with *big companies* (like IBM) there seem to be some still *unresolved LEGAL* issues (just a thought ...) What would be needed, from Rene, however, would be a releae *time schedule*, as I personally think (and believe) Kind reagrds from Vienna, Tom. PS: Rene, however, it would be *great* when you could publish the *current time-schedule* to this group :-) PPS: Persnally, greetings to Venetia ! -) ================================================================================. Am 15.07.2010 04:44, schrieb Bill Fenlason:
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Thomas Schneider Projects ReyC & LOGOS on www.KENAI.com _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email]
Tom. (ths@db-123.com)
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Re: Netrexx as perceived by others
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In reply to this post by Fernando Cassia-2
Hello Fernando,
*sad to say* I did have a mojor meeting* with IBM Austria technical representatives, just to recognize *that* **NONE** (repeat *NONE*) of them is even *know* that *NetRexx* exists since more than 10 year's now. IT's a pity :-) One of the immediates answers (from my point of view) would be to *OPEN* all those REXX and ibm-netrexx *discussion* lists.... Just my personal viewpoint, of course. Kine regards from currenlty *stormy* and *rainy* Vienna. I am so *glad* it's raining currently here again. It simply has been *too hot* the past 6 days.... Tom. ======================================================================= Am 15.07.2010 16:42, schrieb Fernando Cassia:
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Thomas Schneider Projects ReyC & LOGOS on www.KENAI.com _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email]
Tom. (ths@db-123.com)
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Re: Netrexx as perceived by others
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In reply to this post by rvjansen
*Brilliant* answer, Rene, :-)
--however, could you please publish any time-schedules ?? Tom (Thomas Schneider, www.thsitc.com) ==================================================================. Am 15.07.2010 16:00, schrieb René Jansen: > Interesting - I am not sure that I subscribe to the theory that you > need to update a language regularly to establish a user base. In fact, > for me, the stability, bug free nature, and robust defence against > problems introduced by new versions made me quite fond of it. > > I know of no rumour about its open sourcing previous to the official > announcement by IBM and RexxLA in 2008. And you have to take my word > for it, it is going to be open source. The open sourcing of a > programming language is no easy task in a world of software patents, > litigation around Linux and contributions to it. We (IBM and RexxLA) > are making sure that this happens in the right way, to ensure the > longevity of the language, for its user base. > > I am not worried about user base. Like you cannot force a person to > love you, it is hard to grow a user base by stating merits, doing > marketing and propaganda or other forms of showing how insanely great > it is. When we look back at programming languages, it is a history of > very much of the same thing, and most of the time, perceived successes > had nothing to do with inherent quality. More importantly, it has > nothing to do with the status of the open sourcing. Object Rexx, in > itself a brilliant language, has been open sourced for years, but > neither can it count a large user base as a measure of its success. > > What I do know however, is that anyone who tries it, and especially > those who have a history that is broader than C, C++ and Java, finds > it a very worthwhile tool of expression, that yields programs of very > high performance. I cannot do without it, and we, in IBM and RexxLA, > are making sure, at this very moment, that we never have to do without > it. > > best regards, > > René Vincent Jansen. > > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:44 AM, Bill Fenlason<[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Here is the appropriate quote from the article: >> >> "Finally, NetRexx was the original scripting language for the JVM. Developed >> by IBM, it is based on the high-level Rexx language. Although IBM made >> NetRexx available for free, it was never open sourced. Rumors that IBM will >> open the source have swirled throughout much of its lifetime, but there has >> been little confirmation of that. Despite being a remarkably >> well-thought-out scripting idiom -- that can be either compiled or >> interpreted -- NetRexx has languished. IBM updated it exactly twice since >> its release in 1997, and as a result, it no longer has an active user base." >> >> On 7/14/2010 8:19 PM, Hugh Sweeney wrote: >> >> An InfoWorld article on July 14, 2010, entitled "Top five scripting >> Languages on the JVM": >> http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/top-five-scripting-languages-the-jvm-855?page=0,0 >> >> After covering two popular ones, and three niche players, he briefly covers >> Netrexx at the end, concluding that despite some good qualities it no longer >> has an active user base. >> >> Hugh >> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ibm-netrexx mailing list >> [hidden email] >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3005 - Release Date: 07/14/10 >> 14:36:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ibm-netrexx mailing list >> [hidden email] >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > > > -- Thomas Schneider Projects ReyC & LOGOS on www.KENAI.com _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email]
Tom. (ths@db-123.com)
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