Popularity of NetRexx
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Hello,
I'm just in the act of finishing my bachelor thesis about NetRexx at the university of economics in Vienna. But now - at the 'finish straigt' of my work - I ask myself the following question: Altough NetRexx has so much advantages and is convenient/easy to use, it really seems to be not very popular in the general computing community (I know the term 'popular' is wide open to interpretation). But where are the reasons? Is it mostly about the rather scarce documentation compared to Java etc.? To add this questioning to my work I rely on some background/insider knowledge and I really ask you all for that. Many Thanks! Best regards, Martin Maurer -- NEU: FreePhone 3-fach-Flat mit kostenlosem Smartphone! Jetzt informieren: http://mobile.1und1.de/?ac=OM.PW.PW003K20328T7073a _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Martin Maurer <[hidden email]> wrote: But where are the reasons? Is it mostly about the rather scarce documentation compared to Java etc.? In my view this has to do that until last year, NetRexx was a closed-source, IBM "freeware" product neglected in some dark corner of the IBM web pages maze. All of its competitors (Ruby, Python,etc) have strong Linux support and have open source implementations. Now NetRexx is open source, so it is on equal footing with other JVM languages. What would really help increase its exposure would be if it'd be picked up by Linux distros... just my proverbial "two cents worth" of opinion.... FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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It seems like a chicken or egg problem. If NetRexx were "popular",
the distros would include it and lots of people would support it. Or
if there was a lot of support and Linux distributions included it,
it would be more popular.
NetRexx is getting a very late start with less than a year of open source time now and not enough support resources to do very many releases. We are starting to see more tools finally like the Eclipse plugin and the new Ant module written in NetRexx. But it may be too little, too late. I think we need a "killer" dev tool like App Inventor for NetRexx in order to get over the hump. -- Kermit http://www.appinventor.mit.edu On 5/7/2012 8:22 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
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On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Kermit Kiser <[hidden email]> wrote: But it may be too little, too late. I think we need a "killer" dev tool like App Inventor for NetRexx in order to get over the hump I vote for NetBeans integration :) Something like "download Netbeans, install the NetRexx plug-in,and start designing GUIs and tying buttons to netrexx code". Still, even without that, it's not the end of the world. There's people still writing TCL code... FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by Martin Maurer
Hi Martin,
1.) Thanks fo your efforts of your master thesis. You migh like to *post* your finding (either personally to me, or ther individuals interested ...) 2.) Easiest way will be for us all you put your findings to Rene Vincent Jansen, president RexxLA, who will for sue find a slot on www.netrexx.org for publication and reference :-) 3.) Be assured, that *all members* of ibm-netrexx will be more than glad to act (in a concerted approach) to spread the knowledge about this famous invention of MFC :-) Thomas. ======================================================= Am 07.05.2012 16:49, schrieb Martin Maurer: > Hello, > > I'm just in the act of finishing my bachelor thesis about NetRexx at the university of economics in Vienna. > > But now - at the 'finish straigt' of my work - I ask myself the following question: > Altough NetRexx has so much advantages and is convenient/easy to use, it really seems to be not very popular in the general computing community (I know the term 'popular' is wide open to interpretation). But where are the reasons? Is it mostly about the rather scarce documentation compared to Java etc.? > > To add this questioning to my work I rely on some background/insider knowledge and I really ask you all for that. > > Many Thanks! > > Best regards, > Martin Maurer -- Thomas Schneider (Founder of www.thsitc.com) Member of the Rexx Languge Asscociation (www.rexxla.org) Member of the NetRexx Developer's Team (www.netrexx.org) _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
Thomas Schneider, Vienna, Austria (Europe) :-)
www.thsitc.com www.db-123.com |
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In reply to this post by Martin Maurer
Martin, The popularity of Netrexx has mostly to do with it's tenuous survivability and dubious future over the many years that IBM did not support it, enhance it, or release it to open source till so recently. Netrexx could easily be in many LInux distros today had IBM released it years ago, and may well be soon. IMHO netrexx is a tinderbox waiting for that killer app that will spark the bonfire. It really is pulling yourself up by your bootstraps to get programmers to program in Netrexx, employers to employ netrexx programmers and Universities to train programmers who want to get a job coding netrexx. Or as Kermit said,the chicken and the egg situation. Kenneth Klein
Hello, I'm just in the act of finishing my bachelor thesis about NetRexx at the university of economics in Vienna. But now - at the 'finish straigt' of my work - I ask myself the following question: Altough NetRexx has so much advantages and is convenient/easy to use, it really seems to be not very popular in the general computing community (I know the term 'popular' is wide open to interpretation). But where are the reasons? Is it mostly about the rather scarce documentation compared to Java etc.? To add this questioning to my work I rely on some background/insider knowledge and I really ask you all for that. Many Thanks! Best regards, Martin Maurer -- NEU: FreePhone 3-fach-Flat mit kostenlosem Smartphone! Jetzt informieren: http://mobile.1und1.de/?ac=OM.PW.PW003K20328T7073a _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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Martin,
I think the previous poster have nailed the hammer on the head. Rexx is something wonderful and NetRexx is something wonderful for the JVM, but I see IBM's handling of it borderline sabotage - and this even might be the innocent form that large companies perpetrate without knowing it. I am reasonably confident that Rexx has a good future, as soon as we have some stability and some good applications to make the propaganda. It will be hard to undo the effects of moving Rexx between laboratories, declaring SAA procedures language and then quickly deprecating everything called SAA, the OS/2 stigma that it received, even within the IBM top; announcing Object Rexx as free and open source for Linux and reneging on that promise; buying Lotus and having them decide on how to script within IBM; charging different prices for Object Rexx runtime and development editions - it goes on and on. Rexx still being here and being loved by professionals who actually know and use all the languages around - it is a testament to its survivability. The documentation of NetRexx always has been fine; the only point to mention is that the Language Reference is such a good book that there is no real impetus to write more - with that, the User's Guide and the Redbook you have everything for a good start. I am, however, shuffling the documentation around a bit and am introducing a Programmer's Guide, which will contain everything from starting to program to interfacing with the JVM runtime library, to making GUI applications or server side J2EE Container - WAS, JBOSS, Glassfish applications. It even has two chapters on MQ - using MQI and JMS api's. This of course needs some time before it is anywhere nearing completion - the first versions will be released, with 3.02, on the Symposium next week. The best thing anyone can do for NetRexx is write a killer app for mobile and an article how to do it. Somewhere in the vicinity of Angry Birds will certainly do it. best regards, René Jansen. On 8 mei 2012, at 08:15, [hidden email] wrote:
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Rene,
I think your Programmer's Guide is going to be a landmark in the NetRexx story. However, I'm puzzled by the killer app notion. Would this somehow require that NetRexx be used?
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:45 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:
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On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 12:37 PM, George Hovey <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > However, I'm puzzled by the killer app notion. Would this somehow require that NetRexx be used? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application "In marketing terminology, a killer application (commonly shortened to killer app) is any computer program that is so necessary or desirable that it proves the core value of some larger technology, such as computer hardware, gaming console, software, a programming language, software platform, or an operating system. A killer app can substantially increase sales of the platform on which it runs" FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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Fernando,
I saw that, but I don't understand how it applies to NetRexx. Suppose Angry Birds, which I understand was targeted at Apple gizmos, had been written in NetRexx (is this possible?). Where would we be? BTW, thanks for the Orwell quote. On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Fernando Cassia <[hidden email]> wrote:
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A killer App - like a program that could encompass an entire technology with about 174 words. ask class digits form length null source sourceline super this trace version boolean byte char double float int long short abbrev abs b2x center centre changestr compare copies copyindexed countstr c2d c2x datatype delstr delword d2c d2x exists format insert lastpos left length lower max min overlay pos right sequence sign space strip substr subword translate trunc upper verify word wordindex wordlength wordpos words x2b x2c x2d package import options OPTIONS class visibility modifier private public shared abstract adapter final interface binary deprecated extends uses implements properties visibility modifier inheritable private public shared constant static transient volatile deprecated unused numeric digits form scientific engineering trace var all methods off results method visibility modifier inheritable private public shared abstract constant final native static protect binary deprecated returns signals exit iterate leave nop parse return say signal if then else do select loop label protect case when then otherwise to by for over for forever while until catch finally end _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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I don’t know if this helps but several topics I am following or interested in could use some of the simplicity of NetRexx… For example http://www.raspberrypi.org/ and http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs light-weight computing also targeted at school children to let them learn about computer programming etc… Also … MQTT light-weight messaging http://mqtt.org/ HTML5 / CSS / JavaScript (don’t know how NetRexx could play a role, but would certainly have my interest if it is possible…) Today there was a demo from some IBM lab folks showing the latest version of WebSphere (Liberty Profile) running on a credit-card sized computer for children… why…? b’cause it was a cool thing to do… ;-) https://air.mozilla.org/remote/ @Rene, really looking forward to your NetRexx documentation and anything with the vowels M and Q in it has my interest … Michael _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by George Hovey-2
On 5/8/2012 12:32 PM, George Hovey wrote:
> Suppose Angry Birds...had been written in NetRexx George makes a fairly good point: Who knows/cares what language Angry Birds was written in? (I presume it's Objective-C of one flavor or another, but I have no idea.) Has anyone ever asked? Let's say that Angry Birds really was a NetRexx app: would that drive developers to adopt it? If NetRexx were plugged into XCode (an iOS IDE) that would certainly help, but the key would be to expose the internals of the app, brag about how easy it was to write, and produce a bunch of tutorials -- with wide exposure -- to lure in the innocent. There are plenty of "fringe languages" out there, many with only one or two folks developing them -- and many of them are graduate students whose support vanishes after their dissertation -- I think NetRexx as it stands is already better off than a lot of other languages. Tom. _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by George Hovey-2
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:32 PM, George Hovey <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I saw that, but I don't understand how it applies to NetRexx. Say someone ports a popular app to cross-platform Java using NetRexx. (I wouldn't use Angry Birds as an example,because Angry Birds uses Java after all http://www.2ality.com/2011/05/web-game-tech.html , but that's just me). Suppose, then, that an article comes out saying "single developer creates cross-platform version of app xyz in 2 weeks using NetRexx scripting". Suppose then that a hundred people around the world that read that article getreally excited about it, and download NetRexx and start using it to code their apps. Suppose that starts a snowball effect with a hundred devs joining this mailing list overnight and start talking about NetRexx on social networks.... FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by ThSITC
Many, many thanks for all your responses. They helped me a lot and I have finished my thesis just this minute.
@Thomas Schneider Mr. Rony G. Flatscher will grade my paper and if (I enhance: IF) it is good, then I think he will weigh up if it should be published or not. I hope so because it would be a sign that it's a satisfying paper ;) Best regards, Martin Maurer -- NEU: FreePhone 3-fach-Flat mit kostenlosem Smartphone! Jetzt informieren: http://mobile.1und1.de/?ac=OM.PW.PW003K20328T7073a _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by Tom Maynard
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Tom Maynard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> George makes a fairly good point: Who knows/cares what language Angry Birds > was written in? (I presume it's Objective-C of one flavor or another, but I > have no idea.) Has anyone ever asked? It's Java http://www.2ality.com/2011/05/web-game-tech.html FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by Fernando Cassia-2
Suppose I'm just completing and releasing my 'PP' (The Program Porting
Machine), and 'DB-123' (The Database Migration Machine), and assure you it is all written in Netrexx, and I publish that on ibm-netrexx *or* RexxLA... ... then there will be some 'friends' in both groups which will call that *hi-jacking* .-( see you, Fernando, sometimes, somewhere... :-) Thomas. ========================================================== Am 09.05.2012 01:12, schrieb Fernando Cassia: > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:32 PM, George Hovey<[hidden email]> wrote: >> I saw that, but I don't understand how it applies to NetRexx. > Say someone ports a popular app to cross-platform Java using NetRexx. > (I wouldn't use Angry Birds as an example,because Angry Birds uses > Java after all http://www.2ality.com/2011/05/web-game-tech.html , but > that's just me). > > Suppose, then, that an article comes out saying "single developer > creates cross-platform version of app xyz in 2 weeks using NetRexx > scripting". Suppose then that a hundred people around the world that > read that article getreally excited about it, and download NetRexx and > start using it to code their apps. Suppose that starts a snowball > effect with a hundred devs joining this mailing list overnight and > start talking about NetRexx on social networks.... > > FC > -- Thomas Schneider (Founder of www.thsitc.com) Member of the Rexx Languge Asscociation (www.rexxla.org) Member of the NetRexx Developer's Team (www.netrexx.org) _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
Thomas Schneider, Vienna, Austria (Europe) :-)
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Re: Popularity of NetRexx
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In reply to this post by Martin Maurer
One (other) compelling argument could be that the NetRexx program
- looks much nicer - is that much easier to read, maintain, and extend than the Java original Walter (knowing neither of the two) _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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... but you still are 100% correct.
On 9 mei 2012, at 06:15, Walter Pachl wrote: > One (other) compelling argument could be that the NetRexx program > - looks much nicer > - is that much easier to read, maintain, and extend > than the Java original > Walter (knowing neither of the two) > > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ > _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by Tom Maynard
Tom, George,
Angry Birds was no accidental mention because it both is Java and has made the programmer economically independent, at the cost of some virtual pigs. In my view, we only need two of those (apps. not pigs), including all the needed publicity - because you both are right if you state that it would serve no purpose if we'd written it in NetRexx and did not make it known - to shift the attention back to (Net)Rexx. Without having done my homework (but I also made it through school) I am convinced none of the scripting languages runs too well on mobile and other smaller devices. In fact, yesterdays announcement of a 'static' Ruby for one of them (I forgot which - I think IOS) gives me a good impression of the problem - the problem you don't have with NetRexx. This, by the way, might be a good topic for the symposium next week - what kind of demo's and benchmarks we should produce, while lacking the time to do our own Angry Kings. best regards, René. On 8 mei 2012, at 16:07, Tom Maynard wrote: > On 5/8/2012 12:32 PM, George Hovey wrote: >> Suppose Angry Birds...had been written in NetRexx > > George makes a fairly good point: Who knows/cares what language Angry Birds was written in? (I presume it's Objective-C of one flavor or another, but I have no idea.) Has anyone ever asked? > > Let's say that Angry Birds really was a NetRexx app: would that drive developers to adopt it? If NetRexx were plugged into XCode (an iOS IDE) that would certainly help, but the key would be to expose the internals of the app, brag about how easy it was to write, and produce a bunch of tutorials -- with wide exposure -- to lure in the innocent. > > There are plenty of "fringe languages" out there, many with only one or two folks developing them -- and many of them are graduate students whose support vanishes after their dissertation -- I think NetRexx as it stands is already better off than a lot of other languages. > > Tom. > > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ > _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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