Re: [netrexx-course] Weak???
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Jerry McBride wrote:
> >Please feel free to let me (us) know of your experience with > >NetRexx, and how you think you need to improve your NetRexx skills! > > > > That's easy... sockets, threads and constructor methods > I'm an expert at classic REXX, but have only done a little experimentation. I'm also an expert in C, but learning C++ and Java, when I get the time... How about an outline? Tony Koker ---- List Archive: http://www.FindMail.com/list/netrexx-course/ To Subscribe: e-mail to [hidden email] To Unsubscribe: e-mail to [hidden email] -- Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://www.MakeList.com ! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from this mailing list ( ibm-netrexx ), please send a note to [hidden email] with the following message in the body of the note unsubscribe ibm-netrexx <e-mail address> |
Re: [netrexx-course] Weak???
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On Thu, 21 May 1998 21:24:15 -0400, Tony Koker wrote:
| I'm an expert at classic REXX, but have only done a little | experimentation. I'm also an expert in C, but learning C++ and Java, | when I get the time... | | How about an outline? Ok, here's my first cut at what I think we should cover in the beginners course: I figure each lesson may take a fortnight (2 weeks), or possibly even a month. Any comments/suggestions/topics/ideas?? Lesson 1: Into to NetRexx the Language (includes compilation, running apps, simple syntax) (may assume some knowledge of classic rexx) Lesson 2: NetRexx as an OO Language - What are classes, objects, constructors, methods - NetRexx's OO model (keywords, syntax etc) Lesson 3: NetRexx and Java - How to interface to java using NetRexx - some simple java classes and their usage Lesson 4: I/O in NetRexx - files, console, and java.io package Lesson 5: GUI Development - java.awt package, events, adapter keyword - writing applets in netrexx Lesson 6: Networking - socket programming in NetRexx - Using URLs Lesson 7 Multithreading - how to use threads - how they work in NetRexx Lesson 8 Database Access - JDBC, SQL basics (java.sql package) Lesson 9 Misc other java class libraries - ???? ---- List Archive: http://www.FindMail.com/list/netrexx-course/ To Subscribe: e-mail to [hidden email] To Unsubscribe: e-mail to [hidden email] -- Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://www.MakeList.com ! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from this mailing list ( ibm-netrexx ), please send a note to [hidden email] with the following message in the body of the note unsubscribe ibm-netrexx <e-mail address> |
Re: [netrexx-course] Weak???
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In reply to this post by Tony Koker
On Thu, 21 May 1998 22:27:58 -0700, Mitch Gould wrote:
| Hi, | Pardon Me for Jumping In, but I have some ideas for you. They are bound to | be idiosyncratic, so please, consider the source.... No problem! Glad to get some feedback. | My productivity took something of a nosedive recently after I moved to | Java from Visual Basic--a polished, mature environment which makes itself | an expert on knowing which files it needs and where to find them. I guess | by comparision Java is not much smarter than the typical compiled | language--it seems to be constantly at a loss for where its source and | library files are. (I don't have experience with makefile environments.) Remember VB is an IDE with a compiler, rather than just a compiler, as java is... | All I know is I spend an awful lot of time hacking around with CLASSPATH | settings and trying (not always successfully) to convince Java to read from | packages, jars, and zips, whether I'm working with the raw JDK or with | Visual Cafe. Yeah...java as an IDE doesn't take care of everything for you...I think we need to cover these sorts of things in the java section. I think we'll need to cover this in the section covering java and NetRexx... | Indeed, I'd like to suggest that the most successful trainers for NetRexx | will be those who can address the expectations and mindsets of VB | programmers rather than classic Rexx programmers, if for no other reason | than there are vastly more of the former than the latter. Ok, agreed there are more VB programmers in the world, but what interests me *here* is how many are rexx programmers vs VB. I think you'd find most people here have some inkling of rexx, and less would have a knowledge of VB - the opposite of the real world. | Therefore, a few suggestions would be: | (1) Don't bother to perpetuate the party line: "You don't need to know | anything about Java to use NetRexx." (Oh, give me a break.) I'd like to see | some practical advice on using NetRexx inside an IDE such as Visual Cafe | rather than being stuck with Notepad and a clumsy DOS box for ad hoc batch | commands. Ok, here's my version of the 'party line'. You don't need to know Java to use NetRexx. To write useful NetRexx code, you need to know Java. I've fairly heavily mentioned java throughout my rough draft. What more would you like to see covered??? I don't think using NetRexx in VisualCafe in source code form is such a good idea: using it compiled, however is. There are however two NetRexx IDE's available. I've used NetRexx from inside of VAJava. It takes a fair bit of customisation to use it in VCafe. Not for the faint hearted. I'm not going to assume everyone has access to a tool like VCafe, especially in a beginners course. In an advanced course, sure. I do of course recommend people look at the IDE's that are available and use whatever *they* prefer. Believe it or not, a lot of Java developers use a text editor and command prompt to develop. An informal study of the JUG in Sydney showed that 63% developed that way! | (2) You could help us with critical little DOS things that the Java books | always forget to mention: (a) how to properly set lengthy CLASSPATH | statements and avoid "too many parameters" errors from DOS; (b) how to | increase the environment size. (c) You could clear up the essential | contradiction between the advice I constantly read, "Don't set CLASSPATH at | all," and "You must set the CLASSPATH to include package X"; (d) warnings | about the difficulties of using long file- and directory- names in Windows | if you're going into a DOS box to issue batch commands. I think most of these will come up in the section on NetRexx as an OO language - that section will have to cover packages. | (3) You MUST provide clear and sufficient coverage of the use of packages, | jars, and zips; also JavaBeans. Ok, for a *BEGINNERS* course, why do I need to cover beans? What about the use of CABs? I feel that jar/zip and cabs are *not* programming issues - these are deployment ones. Beans, on the other hand are something that you need a good grasp on classes and programming in the language before you should attempt it. | (4) You could emphasize the powerful new Collections package and provide | good examples of lists and dictionaries, particularly sorting lists. These are part of 1.2 (yes, I know there's a 1.1 download available). But I don't think they're necessary in a beginning course. I'd much rather stick with 1.1 and possibly Swing (released), than cover 1.2, otherwise we'll need to cover many other things. I think 1.2 should be a separate topic/course. | (5) In your earliest examples, perhaps you would be so kind as to avoid, | "say Hello world" (yuk!) and instead show several examples of using NetRexx | as a simple, high-level glue for some powerful JavaBeans--for instance, | snatching some free AlphaBeans from IBM Alphaworks. I think an emphasis on | NetRexx as a glue for beans would be highly appropriate and would provide | newcomers with excellent motivation for getting started. I think people have to walk before they run. Most 'beginners' don't know what a bean is; heck, most 'java programmers' don't have a clear idea of what beans are. If I emphasis NetRexx as a glue for beans | (6) Don't forget that VB programmers (like me) don't know Rexx and don't | really care what Classic Rexx used to do. We're interested in NetRexx as an | Object Basic-like environment with the promise of Java's universal | portability. | | Hope these personal opinions may provide some value... | Ciao, | Mitch Gould The opinions are very valuable...One of the reasons for starting the list was to see who was wanting to learn, and tailor things that way. Maybe, as another course, or a section, we need a VB -> Java/NetRexx migration lesson? ---- List Archive: http://www.FindMail.com/list/netrexx-course/ To Subscribe: e-mail to [hidden email] To Unsubscribe: e-mail to [hidden email] -- Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://www.MakeList.com ! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from this mailing list ( ibm-netrexx ), please send a note to [hidden email] with the following message in the body of the note unsubscribe ibm-netrexx <e-mail address> |
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In reply to this post by Tony Koker
On Fri, 22 May 1998 22:46:54 +1000, dIon Gillard wrote:
>I think you'd find most people here have some > inkling of rexx, and less would have a knowledge > of VB - the opposite of the real world. That's me to a tee. >Believe it or not, a lot of Java developers use a > text editor and command prompt to develop. An > informal study of the JUG in Sydney showed > that 63% developed that way! I would like to learn this way. I have this self-imposed need to know "the why" things work, not that they just do. Besides, isn't this really necessary in order to be able to troubleshoot code? Terry Norton, VP Claims Center Solutions [hidden email] Warped with OS/2 ---- List Archive: http://www.FindMail.com/list/netrexx-course/ To Subscribe: e-mail to [hidden email] To Unsubscribe: e-mail to [hidden email] -- Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://www.MakeList.com ! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from this mailing list ( ibm-netrexx ), please send a note to [hidden email] with the following message in the body of the note unsubscribe ibm-netrexx <e-mail address> |
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