article comment

[rvjansen]

Have a look at the nice comment on the article at http://www.eetimes.com/design/embedded/4376047/Java-and-multicore-programming-complexity--Part-2

best regards,

René.

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[George Hovey-2]

Not from a new source, but hopefully it will be noticed by strangers.

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:53 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Have a look at the nice comment on the article at http://www.eetimes.com/design/embedded/4376047/Java-and-multicore-programming-complexity--Part-2

best regards,

René.

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[rvjansen]

Yes I thought so.

We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that NetRexx needs.

René.

On 28 jun. 2012, at 11:25, George Hovey wrote:

Not from a new source, but hopefully it will be noticed by strangers.

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:53 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Have a look at the nice comment on the article at http://www.eetimes.com/design/embedded/4376047/Java-and-multicore-programming-complexity--Part-2

best regards,

René.

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[Michael Dag]

A web page that runs java2nrx in the background?

Folks can paste their java source and see it ‘simplified’ instantly… ;-)

 

Michael

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of René Jansen
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:29
To: IBM Netrexx
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] article comment

 

Yes I thought so.

 

We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that NetRexx needs.

 

René.

 

On 28 jun. 2012, at 11:25, George Hovey wrote:

Not from a new source, but hopefully it will be noticed by strangers.

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:53 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Have a look at the nice comment on the article at http://www.eetimes.com/design/embedded/4376047/Java-and-multicore-programming-complexity--Part-2

 

best regards,

 

René.

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[rvjansen]

<base href="x-msg://331/">I think that is a good idea. I might just bump it to the top of the list.

We need some testers of course.

René.

On 28 jun. 2012, at 11:33, Michael Dag wrote:

A web page that runs java2nrx in the background?

Folks can paste their java source and see it ‘simplified’ instantly… ;-)

 

Michael

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of René Jansen
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:29
To: IBM Netrexx
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] article comment

 

Yes I thought so.

 

We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that NetRexx needs.

 

René.

 

On 28 jun. 2012, at 11:25, George Hovey wrote:

Not from a new source, but hopefully it will be noticed by strangers.

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:53 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Have a look at the nice comment on the article at http://www.eetimes.com/design/embedded/4376047/Java-and-multicore-programming-complexity--Part-2

 

best regards,

 

René.

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[Marc Remes-2]

On 06/28/2012 11:28 AM, René Jansen wrote:
> Yes I thought so.
>
> We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that NetRexx needs.
>
> René.
>

generic types should be rather high on that list. Java code is full of it nowadays. And I still have not found a way to
translate it conveniently to NetRexx..

Marc

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[rickmcguire]

A lot of corporate java programming these days are server-side
applications (e.g., jee apps).  The current state of this environment
leans very heavily on annotation usage.  Netrexx would be a very
difficult sell without that.

Also, a lot of APIs these days use enumerations (and generics).  These
need to be a first-class part of the language as well.

Rick

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 6:43 AM, Marc Remes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 06/28/2012 11:28 AM, René Jansen wrote:
>>
>> Yes I thought so.
>>
>> We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that NetRexx
>> needs.
>>
>> René.
>>
>
> generic types should be rather high on that list. Java code is full of it
> nowadays. And I still have not found a way to translate it conveniently to
> NetRexx..
>
> Marc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>

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[ThSITC]

Hi Michael, *and all* :

As we are currenlty in the process to install our own Server, available thru the Cloud,
here in Vienna, with Netrexx and as well SVN installed, we could as well install
Java2Nrx -- given that someon helps with the Details.

Reinhard Walland, who is a companion of my Company ThSITC, and does all those
Hardware related issues I do only have *very limited* knowledge of,
might do the installation for all of us, whan we all do agree that would help us all ...

The server is running under BSD Linux, as far as I do remember.

When interested, pleas directly send the details to reinhard (cc me, please),
so that he would be able to help us on this issue.     .-)

Sincerely,

Thomas Schneider,
CEO ThSITC IT-Consulting KG
Erdbergstr. 52-60/1/13
1030 Wien

Skype ID: Thomas.Schneider.Wien
=============================================================
Am 28.06.2012 11:33, schrieb Michael Dag:

A web page that runs java2nrx in the background?

Folks can paste their java source and see it ‘simplified’ instantly… ;-)

 

Michael

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of René Jansen
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:29
To: IBM Netrexx
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] article comment

 

Yes I thought so.

 

We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that NetRexx needs.

 

René.

 

On 28 jun. 2012, at 11:25, George Hovey wrote:

Not from a new source, but hopefully it will be noticed by strangers.

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:53 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Have a look at the nice comment on the article at http://www.eetimes.com/design/embedded/4376047/Java-and-multicore-programming-complexity--Part-2

 

best regards,

 

René.

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[Hugh Sweeney]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 10:39 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think that is a good idea. I might just bump it to the top of the list.

I just don't get the importance of translating java to NetRexx. If anyone wants to write in NetRexx because it is a simpler JVM language than Java, why start with Java code? Just go ahead and write NetRexx.

On the other hand, if a contractor is hired to write some extension in NetRexx to an existing system that happens to be written in Java, they wouldn't need to see the Java source code to do that. Just the API (class and interface names, constructor and method signatures) and documentation about their functionality. The Java Runtime Environment currently comes supplied with about 4000 classes. I've written code (in VB, Perl, javascript) that uses some of those classes, without ever seeing a line of their source code. They are widely documented, e.g. at http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/.

If on the um, third hand, you've just found an implementation of a good algorithm that you want translated into NetRexx, there is good free code out there written in many languages, so why not fortran2nrx, bash2nrx, pascal2nrx etc? What's so special about Java in this case?

 

We need some testers of course.

If you decide to go ahead with this, I volunteer to write some tricky Java code as test data. I'm probably quite good at writing bad Java that just about compiles :)

Hugh
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[rvjansen]

having three hands would help me a lot in coding faster - and yes, we
will need all of those converters, but let's conquer the world in small
steps ;-)

René.

On 2012-06-28 14:56, Hugh Sweeney wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 10:39 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]
> [1]> wrote:
>
>
> If on the um, third hand, you've just found an implementation of a
> good algorithm that you want translated into NetRexx, there is good
> free code out there written in many languages, so why not
> fortran2nrx,
> bash2nrx, pascal2nrx etc? What's so special about Java in this case?
>

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[George Hovey-2]

A possible 'canonical' test suite might be extracted from The Java Tutorial.

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 5:39 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think that is a good idea. I might just bump it to the top of the list.

We need some testers of course.

René.

On 28 jun. 2012, at 11:33, Michael Dag wrote:

A web page that runs java2nrx in the background?

Folks can paste their java source and see it ‘simplified’ instantly… ;-)

 

Michael

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of René Jansen
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:29
To: IBM Netrexx
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] article comment

 

Yes I thought so.

 

We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that NetRexx needs.

 

René.

 

On 28 jun. 2012, at 11:25, George Hovey wrote:

Not from a new source, but hopefully it will be noticed by strangers.

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:53 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Have a look at the nice comment on the article at http://www.eetimes.com/design/embedded/4376047/Java-and-multicore-programming-complexity--Part-2

 

best regards,

 

René.

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[George Hovey-2]

Hugh,
A central claim of NetRexx is its interoperability with Java.  This in principle gives us the ear of a vast population of potential converts: Java programmers.  But they must be convinced of NetRexx's advantages.  The converter would

• show the correspondence between NetRexx and Java without have first to read a lengthy language reference;
• show that NetRexx is more succinct, compact, etc.

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 9:15 AM, George Hovey <[hidden email]> wrote:

A possible 'canonical' test suite might be extracted from The Java Tutorial.

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 5:39 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think that is a good idea. I might just bump it to the top of the list.

We need some testers of course.

René.

On 28 jun. 2012, at 11:33, Michael Dag wrote:

A web page that runs java2nrx in the background?

Folks can paste their java source and see it ‘simplified’ instantly… ;-)

 

Michael

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of René Jansen
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:29
To: IBM Netrexx
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] article comment

 

Yes I thought so.

 

We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that NetRexx needs.

 

René.

 

On 28 jun. 2012, at 11:25, George Hovey wrote:

Not from a new source, but hopefully it will be noticed by strangers.

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:53 AM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Have a look at the nice comment on the article at http://www.eetimes.com/design/embedded/4376047/Java-and-multicore-programming-complexity--Part-2

 

best regards,

 

René.

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[alansam]

BSD is not Linux is not BSD

On 28 June 2012 04:07, Thomas Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote:

The server is running under BSD Linux, as far as I do remember.

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[Hugh Sweeney]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 2:51 PM, George Hovey <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hugh,
A central claim of NetRexx is its interoperability with Java.  This in principle gives us the ear of a vast population of potential converts: Java programmers.  But they must be convinced of NetRexx's advantages.  The converter would

• show the correspondence between NetRexx and Java without have first to read a lengthy language reference;

That's a good point. There's nothing like looking at the converted form of your own familiar source code in order to grasp the syntax of another language.  It's better even than looking at sample converted code in a tutorial guide (because it's your own code).

• show that NetRexx is more succinct, compact, etc.

I question how important this is to Java programmers. For a start, the converted output probably won't be as well laid out as the original code. Formatting tends to get lost. At least that's been my experience in some converters I've used. Including one I wrote myself (in Rexx of course). Some kind of pretty-printer module could be added at the output stage of the converter to remedy this, but at some development cost. Secondly, I wonder how much Java programmers will be impressed by succinctness and compactness. I suspect that a good IDE removes the labour of keying the extra clauses in Java (but I have no recent personal experience to call on here). And, Java programmers seem quite happy with C-like languages; they may after all have started out on one and later found Java syntax not particularly foreign.

That said, I believe that getting some Java programmers talking about the benefits of NetRexx would add greatly to its credibility. The only other group of potential converts that I've seen mentioned on this group (people who do little or no programming but are attracted by the simplicity of NetRexx as a JVM language) would not carry much clout in language circles.

As Rene pointed out in another thread, developers are few and time is short*. I'm inclined to put a higher priority on supporting the latest Java language features than on translating Java source to NetRexx. I for one have found it very frustrating to work with a back level of a language that I'm familiar with. Finding that a language feature that my design depends on is not available is (nearly) enough to drive me back to assembler. YMMV

*Is there a list anywhere of tasks needing work? It's conceivable that I could help with something.

Hugh

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