eclipse plugin code completion and error highlighting

[David Holiday]

If I may be so bold I'd like to make a suggestion to the NetRexx dev community. I learned Rexx while working at IBM on z-series mainframes and very much liked the language. I knew about NetRexx but didn't pay much attention to it until recently when I found out that the code was open-sourced and that there was an Eclipse plugin. Currently I'm building from scratch a large desktop application for which NetRexx would be a perfect fit if it weren't for the fact that, if I use NetRexx instead of Java, I lose the code-completion features of a modern IDE like Eclipse. If the value proposition of NetRexx is that it makes writing Java easier, then it's imperative that a developer doesn't lose valuable tools by switching from stock Java to NetRexx.

To that end, I propose that resources be allocated towards enhancing the current Eclipse plugin so that a developer who chooses to use NetRexx in her projects doesn't lose access to all the helpful stuff Eclipse does when she writes her code in stock Java. Otherwise, transitioning to NetRexx in any meaningful way becomes time-prohibitive because NetRexx is no longer 'easier' than stock Java.

cheers,

David

[billfen]

David,

Since I'm the developer of the Eclipse NetRexx Plugin, it is appropriate
that I address your comment.

My plugin is largely a "labor of love" project and is used by only a small
portion of the NetRexx community.  It has been primarily an experimental
ad-tech effort, and is classified as at alpha-code level.
 
I'm a retired (1996) IBM programmer with numerous recreational projects,
and while I would like to complete a second, more product oriented version
of the plugin, it is currently not my highest priority.  My work is
unfunded, and I rather doubt that there are any "resources" available to
assist with the effort.  

My experience has been that the NetRexx community, (and the Rexx community
in general) has been somewhat slow to recognize the value of IDEs, to use
them or adopt them.  While there are a few who use Eclipse and have
commented on the plugin and encouraged me to continue the work, there has
been no effort to use an IDE for NetRexx development itself.  One of the
reasons is that the NetRexx translator is written in NetRexx rather than in
Java, so many of the benefits of Eclipse or NetBeans are lost.  

The programming model for the Rexx family of languages has always been that
a program is a simple text file processed by an interpreter or compiler
(invoked via a command line).  Rather than NetRexx "making writing Java
easier", I think most NetRexx users generally do not program in Java (and
don't want to), although they see value in the ability to interact with
Java code or libraries.

I certainly agree with you regarding the desirability of a really
comprehensive NetRexx IDE.

Best wishes for your application development.

Bill Fenlason


Original email:
-----------------
From: David Holiday [hidden email]
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 11:19:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Ibm-netrexx] eclipse plugin code completion and error highlighting


If I may be so bold I'd like to make a suggestion to the NetRexx dev
community. I learned Rexx while working at IBM on z-series mainframes and
very much liked the language. I knew about NetRexx but didn't pay much
attention to it until recently when I found out that the code was
open-sourced and that there was an Eclipse plugin. Currently I'm building
from scratch a large desktop application for which NetRexx would be a
perfect fit if it weren't for the fact that, if I use NetRexx instead of
Java, I lose the code-completion features of a modern IDE like Eclipse. If
the value proposition of NetRexx is that it makes writing Java easier, then
it's imperative that a developer doesn't lose valuable tools by switching
from stock Java to NetRexx.

To that end, I propose that resources be allocated towards enhancing the
current Eclipse plugin so that a developer who chooses to use NetRexx in her
projects doesn't lose access to all the helpful stuff Eclipse does when she
writes her code in stock Java. Otherwise, transitioning to NetRexx in any
meaningful way becomes time-prohibitive because NetRexx is no longer
'easier' than stock Java.

cheers,

David



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[David Holiday]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for getting back to me, and for your work on the plugin!

I'm a bit disheartened, but not surprised, to hear that many in the NetRexx community prefer simple text editors to write their code. I can't tell you how many people I worked with at IBM that refused to code in anything other than the ISPF editor! It's a shame, though, because IDEs really do make building and maintaining large code bases a heck of a lot easier.

You know, one option that you guys may not have explored is Google summer of code. Under your direction, a smart college kid can make the requisite enhancements to the plugin and Google will pay for it!

Regardless, I'm going to keep my eye on this language because it still might be useful in my application. I'm writing an ALife Tool kit and there's a need for the user to be able to specify protocols to manage how the agents relate with their environments. NetRexx might be a neat way to meet that requirement, as well as give the application a Smalltalk-like capability to modify itself at runtime with user-supplied code.

cheers,

David

[Kermit Kiser]

David --

Some of us less professional programmers use the jEdit "text editor"
environment with it's NetRexx plugin for NetRexx programming. While not
as sophisticated as a programming IDE, it does have some limited code
completion for NetRexx and has the advantage of being easily extended
via NetRexx macros.

Although jEdit does not have a sophisticated build system like Eclipse,
a little experimentation shows that you can configure Eclipse to use
jEdit as an added external editor (at least on Windows -
Eclipse=>Window=>Preferences=>General=>Editors=>File
Associations=>*.nrx=>Associated editors=>Add=>jedit.exe) for NetRexx
source thus merging the benefits of the two environments. You can then
open NetRexx source with either or both editors from Eclipse and easily
switch between the internal Eclipse editor and the jEdit window -
changes saved in either editor are immediately reflected in the other.
You can also build or test with each environment as appropriate.

-- Kermit

On 6/25/2014 6:43 PM, David Holiday wrote:

> Hi Bill,
>
> Thanks for getting back to me, and for your work on the plugin!
>
> I'm a bit disheartened, but not surprised, to hear that many in the NetRexx
> community prefer simple text editors to write their code. I can't tell you
> how many people I worked with at IBM that refused to code in anything other
> than the ISPF editor! It's a shame, though, because IDEs really do make
> building and maintaining large code bases a heck of a lot easier.
>
> You know, one option that you guys may not have explored is Google summer of
> code. Under your direction, a smart college kid can make the requisite
> enhancements to the plugin and Google will pay for it!
>
> Regardless, I'm going to keep my eye on this language because it still might
> be useful in my application. I'm writing an ALife Tool kit and there's a
> need for the user to be able to specify protocols to manage how the agents
> relate with their environments. NetRexx might be a neat way to meet that
> requirement, as well as give the application a Smalltalk-like capability to
> modify itself at runtime with user-supplied code.
>
> cheers,
>
> David
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/eclipse-plugin-code-completion-and-error-highlighting-tp4027203p4027205.html
> Sent from the ibm-netrexx mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
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>
>
>

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[David Holiday]

I'll give it a go when I get home - I've never used jEdit so it'll be a bit of an adventure :-)

[ThSITC]

Hi David, & all,

I did *use* jEdit long long time ago, but those time jEdit has been
*very much to SLOW*Ü for my quickness
of Typing, thus *I* did purchase UltraEdit, those times ... ;-)

Nowadays, as Computers are now seeming to be able to probably *support*
(in SPEED) the ...
Ingeniouty of Mr. Slava Pestov (the original Author of jEdit, as far as
I do know) ...

... and all the other PLUGIN authors and Helpers in this his own
original jEdit Design and Development ...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
* I did switch again BACK to jEdit, as nowadays ...
* ... obviously Java is performing quick enough ....
* .......... TO Capture the quickness of my ideas, and typing (errors
included, of course)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Didn't yet find the necessary time-slot to try ECLIPSE, at all ...

BUT:

My personal feeling, this minute, is:

****************************************************************************************************
* We all (together) shall develop a *strategy* how we shall (maybe, and
hopefully) work
* +++ together +++ to help Kermit and Rene to keep the NetRexx *ball*
rolling ;-) ;-) ;-)
****************************************************************************************************

Sorry to say:

Keeping *the ball* +++rollling+++ is (again, what else) a +++cracy
association+++
because of the current soccer WM ;-) ;-) ;-)

Bye for Today,
... and enjoy Your life, anyway ...

Don't worry, ### Don'ty HuRYY (too much) ###, ... BE Happy!

Thomas.
====================================================================

Am 26.06.2014 20:10, schrieb David Holiday:

> I'll give it a go when I get home - I've never used jEdit so it'll be a bit
> of an adventure :-)
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/eclipse-plugin-code-completion-and-error-highlighting-tp4027203p4027207.html
> Sent from the ibm-netrexx mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
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>

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