Android and NetRexx

[Kermit Kiser]

Greetings again!

Is there anyone else out there developing for Google Android with
NetRexx or interested in doing so?

IDE:

If so, I would consider cleaning up, documenting and uploading for
general use the Android/NetRexx IDE that I am building as I develop my
first Android application.  The IDE currently consists of several
NetRexx and Beanshell jEdit scripts to create, compile and test Android
projects along with the rather tricky Ant build.xml file required to
create Android applications from NetRexx code. (The resource files have
to be precompiled to class files before the NetRexx code can be
translated to Java code that the normal Android build can process.)

RFE:

One problem that I have encountered with Android programming seems to be
in NetRexx itself. This is not a bug exactly, but still something that I
would like to see fixed in open source NetRexx. Android library methods
that require text parameters are defined to accept the CharSequence
interface rather than the older String class. This is done to allow a
wider range of text items and to avoid the overhead of creating
unnecessary String items due to the limited memory resources of Android
environments. Unfortunately NetRexx does not recognize the newer
CharSequence interface and if you try to pass a Rexx item or even a
constant string to a library method, the automatic conversion that
NetRexx normally performs will fail because NetRexx tries to convert to
an integer in that case rather than a String as it should. Thus the
programmer has to manually convert Rexx items to strings for method calls.

Competitive Advantage:

Note that in spite of the lack of Eclipse (the normal Android IDE)
support for NetRexx and the need to build an IDE and the problems I've
encountered, I still feel that NetRexx is a significant competitive
advantage for developing Android applications! My first application is
already working well on my Droid phone and improving rapidly as I get
the hang of things. I think Android will be the first real "mass
market"for NetRexx applications.

Open Source NetRexx:

That brings me to these questions that Ren? or someone may be able to
answer: Is open source NetRexx going to come out soon? Will there be a
web site for open source NetRexx soon? Will there be a sourceforge
repository for sharing NetRexx extensions, add-ons, enhancements,
applications, etc and for tracking RFEs and bug reports anytime soon?
Should we just create our own sourceforge projects like Rexx projects
currently do? (I personally feel that a consolidated gateway to NetRexx
enhancement projects like CPAN provides for Perl would be a big win for
NetRexx.) The fact that the NetRexx compiler/interpreter is written in
NetRexx itself means that all NetRexx programmers are potential language
maintainers/enhancers which could be a big advantage. I think that most
other languages, including ooRexx, are developed in C and not
supportable by the normal language users. Is that correct?

Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one (besides George and Thomas that
is!) actually developing in NetRexx. Please feel free to respond!

-- Kermit

[Patric Bechtel]

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Kermit Kiser schrieb am 23.12.2009 00:10:
> Greetings again!
>
> Is there anyone else out there developing for Google Android with
> NetRexx or interested in doing so?
>
> IDE:

Sounds cool.

> RFE:
>
> One problem that I have encountered with Android programming seems to be
> in NetRexx itself. This is not a bug exactly, but still something that I
> would like to see fixed in open source NetRexx. Android library methods
> that require text parameters are defined to accept the CharSequence
> interface rather than the older String class. This is done to allow a
> wider range of text items and to avoid the overhead of creating
> unnecessary String items due to the limited memory resources of Android
> environments. Unfortunately NetRexx does not recognize the newer
> CharSequence interface and if you try to pass a Rexx item or even a
> constant string to a library method, the automatic conversion that
> NetRexx normally performs will fail because NetRexx tries to convert to
> an integer in that case rather than a String as it should. Thus the
> programmer has to manually convert Rexx items to strings for method calls.

That reminds me of my problems with StringBuilder, which I mentioned in
my "things to fix once NetRexx is open sourced". Note that this is not
just a "small annoyance", but can be a bigger problem performance wise
on Android - time is battery...

> Competitive Advantage:
>
> Note that in spite of the lack of Eclipse (the normal Android IDE)
> support for NetRexx and the need to build an IDE and the problems I've
> encountered, I still feel that NetRexx is a significant competitive
> advantage for developing Android applications!

I don't like IDEs, especially Eclipse for its SWT and all-so-present
probs regarding gfx (had to twiddle my X to make it work!). Code
completion might be nice, but somehow it's good to know that an editor,
ant and a JVM is enough to produce good code.

> My first application is
> already working well on my Droid phone and improving rapidly as I get
> the hang of things. I think Android will be the first real "mass
> market"for NetRexx applications.

That might be true.

> Open Source NetRexx:
>
> That brings me to these questions that Ren? or someone may be able to
> answer: Is open source NetRexx going to come out soon? Will there be a
> web site for open source NetRexx soon? Will there be a sourceforge
> repository for sharing NetRexx extensions, add-ons, enhancements,
> applications, etc and for tracking RFEs and bug reports anytime soon?

That would be great... it's a *very* slow process. I can trace my mails
back to christmas '2001 when I first mentioned that option to MFC.
That's 8 years already...

> Should we just create our own sourceforge projects like Rexx projects
> currently do? (I personally feel that a consolidated gateway to NetRexx
> enhancement projects like CPAN provides for Perl would be a big win for
> NetRexx.) The fact that the NetRexx compiler/interpreter is written in
> NetRexx itself means that all NetRexx programmers are potential language
> maintainers/enhancers which could be a big advantage. I think that most
> other languages, including ooRexx, are developed in C and not
> supportable by the normal language users. Is that correct?

Not really - javac is implemented in Java, too. But it is remarkable and
very nice to be able to have an API to the compiler itself. See Groovy
and it's MOP/AST stuff - if we could do similar things in NetRexx, it
would be nice. But again, that was also part of my "things to do" mail...

> Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one (besides George and Thomas that
> is!) actually developing in NetRexx. Please feel free to respond!

No. My complete company (OAshi) and all employees are programming in
NetRexx, all (!) its products so far are implemented >95% in NetRexx,
some of the customers write NetRexx code to improve/change/create code
with it... (ok, there's a bit Java and Groovy, also). You are not
alone... maybe there are even more? ;-)

- --
Patric
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[Michael Dag]

It will be interesting to see this, I have no experience with Android,
but you are certainly not alone when it comes to developing in NetRexx.
I know what it feels like as I always think I am the last one left ;-)
but apparently that is not the case!

MQDocument and a part of MQArchitect are written in NetRexx, more
information can be found on www.mqsystems.com

Michael Dag

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Kermit Kiser
Sent: woensdag 23 december 2009 0:11
To: IBM Netrexx
Subject: [Ibm-netrexx] Android and NetRexx

Greetings again!

Is there anyone else out there developing for Google Android with NetRexx or
interested in doing so?

IDE:

If so, I would consider cleaning up, documenting and uploading for general
use the Android/NetRexx IDE that I am building as I develop my first Android
application.  The IDE currently consists of several NetRexx and Beanshell
jEdit scripts to create, compile and test Android projects along with the
rather tricky Ant build.xml file required to create Android applications
from NetRexx code. (The resource files have to be precompiled to class files
before the NetRexx code can be translated to Java code that the normal
Android build can process.)

RFE:

One problem that I have encountered with Android programming seems to be in
NetRexx itself. This is not a bug exactly, but still something that I would
like to see fixed in open source NetRexx. Android library methods that
require text parameters are defined to accept the CharSequence interface
rather than the older String class. This is done to allow a wider range of
text items and to avoid the overhead of creating unnecessary String items
due to the limited memory resources of Android environments. Unfortunately
NetRexx does not recognize the newer CharSequence interface and if you try
to pass a Rexx item or even a constant string to a library method, the
automatic conversion that NetRexx normally performs will fail because
NetRexx tries to convert to an integer in that case rather than a String as
it should. Thus the programmer has to manually convert Rexx items to strings
for method calls.

Competitive Advantage:

Note that in spite of the lack of Eclipse (the normal Android IDE) support
for NetRexx and the need to build an IDE and the problems I've encountered,
I still feel that NetRexx is a significant competitive advantage for
developing Android applications! My first application is already working
well on my Droid phone and improving rapidly as I get the hang of things. I
think Android will be the first real "mass market"for NetRexx applications.

Open Source NetRexx:

That brings me to these questions that Ren? or someone may be able to
answer: Is open source NetRexx going to come out soon? Will there be a web
site for open source NetRexx soon? Will there be a sourceforge repository
for sharing NetRexx extensions, add-ons, enhancements, applications, etc and
for tracking RFEs and bug reports anytime soon?
Should we just create our own sourceforge projects like Rexx projects
currently do? (I personally feel that a consolidated gateway to NetRexx
enhancement projects like CPAN provides for Perl would be a big win for
NetRexx.) The fact that the NetRexx compiler/interpreter is written in
NetRexx itself means that all NetRexx programmers are potential language
maintainers/enhancers which could be a big advantage. I think that most
other languages, including ooRexx, are developed in C and not supportable by
the normal language users. Is that correct?

Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one (besides George and Thomas that
is!) actually developing in NetRexx. Please feel free to respond!

-- Kermit
_______________________________________________
Ibm-netrexx mailing list
[hidden email]

[Stephen Y Odo]

> Is there anyone else out there developing for Google Android with
NetRexx or interested in doing so?


I have not done anything with NetRexx, Eclipse, Java, etc. other than
reading tutorials, etc.

But I just got a Verizon/Motorola Droid for Christmas!  So now, I'm
interested in developing Android apps!
  :-P

--Stephen

[Kermit Kiser]

Hi Stephen;

If you are interested in learning NetRexx programming, I definitely do
NOT recommend starting with Android applications! That environment is
unique, tricky and not well documented yet. I do recommend that you
install jEdit and the NetRexxScript plugin. That environment will allow
you to type a simple NetRexx program or statement like: say 'hello' ,
and then click the run button to try it out. It is a very easy
environment for learning NetRexx programming.

That said, I finally found the time to document and zip up my prototype
Android NetRexx IDE and upload it. It is still in an early test state
and not guaranteed to do anything, but at least it is out there in case
anyone is interested in trying it out.

Documentation:  
http://kermitkiser.com/AndRexx/Android%20NetRexx%20IDE%20prototype.html

Zip file:  http://kermitkiser.com/AndRexx/Android_NetRexx_IDE_prototype.zip

You can also find a free timer application for Android which I am
currently developing and which is probably the world's first real
Android application written in NetRexx on my Android NetRexx project
page. I have been testing it on my Motorola Droid phone.

http://kermitkiser.com/AndRexx

Have fun!

-- Kermit


Stephen Y Odo wrote:

>> Is there anyone else out there developing for Google Android with
>>    
> NetRexx or interested in doing so?
>
>
> I have not done anything with NetRexx, Eclipse, Java, etc. other than
> reading tutorials, etc.
>
> But I just got a Verizon/Motorola Droid for Christmas!  So now, I'm
> interested in developing Android apps!
>   :-P
>
> --Stephen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
>  

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