NetRexx project on SourceForge?

[rvjansen]

Aha I see the problem here.

There is quite a difference between the sourcecode repository, which contains every small changeset to the source code, and which enables the developers to be in sync and not overwrite each others work, and filesets of source and distribution, of which it is no problem at all to duplicate them. As you say, no trouble (but: I wonder if SF wants to act as a files download site, the purpose of it is to run cvs or svn). But for subversion, it is; it will never be consistent enough to have a workable situation for the developers and it is a risk for the integrity of the source code, if it has more then one source.

When (if) we go to distributed version management systems, this situation might change slightly, but that is out of scope for the time being. We have to put it on the agenda anyway but it is not first priority.

Note that every developer has copies of (states of) the source code repository, so this is a kind of distributed continuity management.

René.

On 22 jun 2011, at 21:27, Fernando Cassia wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 15:56, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I agree with that - multiple places for the distributable package is cool;
>> but the source really should be in one place.
>> best regards,
>> René.
>
> I don´t think it´s such a big trouble to have the source and binaries
> mirrored on 3 sites, even while the two secondary mirrors (Kenai and
> SourceForge) would clearly state on the project description that the
> main site is www.netrexx.org.
>
> In fact, I see it the other way around: a single place means a "single
> point of failure". Sites ocassionaly go down for maintenance (Like
> Sourceforge or Kenai).
>
> And what trouble does it add? As long as you batch-upload every new
> release to all 3 sites, all will be fine (like I said, you could
> script that so with a single command it´s sequentially uploaded to all
> 3 sites). Take a look at "wput", a wget-like application, but which
> does uploads instead of downloads.
>
> http://wput.sourceforge.net/
>
> I remember a time when files where mirrored on dozens of sites, world-wide...
>
> http://www.filesearch.ru/cgi-bin/s?q=pkz204g.exe&t=f&d=&x=0&y=0
>
> http://www.filesearch.ru/cgi-bin/s?q=psp501ev.exe&t=f&w=a&x=0&y=0
>
> Of course that´s my personal view, you don´t have to agree with me.
>
> FC
>
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[ThSITC]

Hello Bill,
I started the Rexx2Nrx project back in 2000, and sometimes (cannot
remember when) opened up the Rexx2Nrx project at source-forge.

My current plans are:

1.) To finish Rexx2Nrx version 7 (now all in NetRexx) as soon as possible.
Rexx2Nrx will accept IBM compiled Rexx as source code, and also Object
Rexx version 1, and Regina, and ANSI Rexx.
2.) Due to my limited knowledge about open source, I have not yet decided
where to publish it. But I will in any case forward the (copyrigth
protected)
source code for storage & as a good way to document my routines
on www.netrexx.org. My current plan is to make this release in Synch
with NetRexx 3.01

Thomas.
===========================================================
Am 22.06.2011 17:59, schrieb [hidden email]:

> If you search sourceforge.net for "netrexx", you find 3 projects - the
> Rexx2Nrx translator, my Eclipse NetRexx plugin, and the NetRexx Incremental
> Compiler project (started by Rene in 2004 but which is currently
> essentially empty).
>
> OORexx is hosted there as well (with a total of 11 various OORexx efforts).
>
> Certainly Rene's project could be changed to include the kenai project, or
> at least have pointers to it.  Setting up a sourceforge project is easy
> enough, and of course google code and possibly others are possibilities.
> The issue isn't setting up the projects, it's finding people to do the work
> in maintaining and adding to them.
>
> I'm restarting the Eclipse plugin work and will provide at least one more
> version (including full AST processing).  I'll also include the netrexx3
> Ant task there as well, and contribute that to the Apache Ant project in
> case they want it.
>
> Certainly enough people have downloaded the base NetRexx source by now that
> it is unlikely that it will get lost, but your point is well taken as time
> and changes occur.
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
>
>
> On 6/22/2011 10:05 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
>> Don´t you think it would be helpful to have NetRexx as a project listed
> in SourceForge.net too?.
>> Don´t get me wrong NetRexx.org is nice, but when/if (knock on wood, hope
> that never happens) it dissapears one day, the files disappear with it. (I
> don´t mean voluntarily disappear, imagine one day someone forgets to renew
> the netrexx.org domain name and it´s taken over by spammers -it happened to
> me with one of my domains).
>> In any case, I think the more views the project gets, the more people
> will get attracted to it. Think of it in terms of having advertising in as
> many printed magazines as possible. Would you reject having a full-page ad
> for your project/product, if it´s free? I bet you wouldn´t.
>> So, a NetRexx project on SourceForge.net will only bring more people to
> it. You could simply create a NetRexx project on SF.net and upload the same
> files which are now hosted on NetRexx.org.
>> (I would go as far as to say that SourceForge.net is even better for
> distributing files, as the SF.net binaries are mirrored on dozens of
> Sourceforge mirror sites world-wide, and downloaders get the files closer
> to them. This is not a big deal for small projects like NetRexx but it
> surely helps others with bigger files).
>> Just my $0.02...
>> FC
>>
>>
>>
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--
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[ThSITC]

Hello Fernando,
    1.) Thanks for all the good work you are doing with your press releases.
    2.) Thank you even more by mentioning Rexx2Nrx with the right (new)
link!
    3.) Cannot help you with the commercial's, sorry. I'm, for myself,
having the same issues (beeing a freelancer) than you.

Anyway, my current feeling is that we all together are making *progress*
with this NetRexx' open source project.

And this the one, only one, I'm interested.
No, it's not the only one: I'm also interested in a log of other things:
good music, ride my bycicle, overall: have friends and fun in life.

Thomas.
=========================================================
Am 22.06.2011 21:33, schrieb Fernando Cassia:

> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 15:47, René Jansen<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> In the meantime, how about a few more articles from our press officer?
> I´ve been trying to chase Amazon.com to send me demo unit of the
> Kindle, so I can not only review it but try to see how difficult it´d
> be for a total newbie like me to create a sample Kindle app with its
> Kindle Java SDK using NetRexx.
>
> http://blogs.oracle.com/kharezlak/entry/amazon_kindle_sdk_kdk_uses
>
> Unfortunately my once-known PR contact, Patti Smith seems to have left the firm.
>
> And no, my freelancer´s pay does not allow me to buy every shiny new
> toy that is released. (plus, I expect firms that send review samples
> to pay for the import duties, which down here can add up to 50% of its
> invoice cost).
>
> So if anyone´s got a current lead/contact at Amazon, please let me know.
>
> FC
>
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>

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[ThSITC]

May I simply add that I was wrking with Rene at those times to implement an open source Netrexx compiler. Not to mention the name.

But, may I also mention that nowadays, with the open sourcing of Mike's
source, there is neither an urgent nor a desirable intent to having to maintain two compilers.

Thus, I've decided, for the minute, to be a tools & utils provider for org.netrexx
Thomas.
========================================================
Am 22.06.2011 20:47, schrieb René Jansen:

Hi Fernando,

yes, I remember nric. It was started by Chad Slaughter in the days there was no perspective on open sourcing; it fell apart for various reasons. The reason we went to Kenai is (apart from several people telling me they were fed up with SlashDots interface and changes thereof, is that there is much more integration with the Java community.

NetRexx.org is donated to RexxLA; the associating will take care of its continuity. It is also in version management; for this reason it was easlly redeployable to amazon. If we have a NetRexx project on SF, I wonder what it should contain. Surely you don't mean for it to contain another copy of the source code? (Hmm, this is what you say in the next sentence). That would be inviting versioning trouble or creates the impression that it forked.

What I wiil do, is to explain on the older SF project what happenend and where to get the open sourced version.

In the meantime, how about a few more articles from our press officer?

best regards,

René.

On 22 jun 2011, at 16:05, Fernando Cassia wrote:

Don´t you think it would be helpful to have NetRexx as a project listed in SourceForge.net too?.

Don´t get me wrong NetRexx.org is nice, but when/if (knock on wood, hope that never happens) it dissapears one day, the files disappear with it. (I don´t mean voluntarily disappear, imagine one day someone forgets to renew the netrexx.org domain name and it´s taken over by spammers -it happened to me with one of my domains).

In any case, I think the more views the project gets, the more people will get attracted to it. Think of it in terms of having advertising in as many printed magazines as possible. Would you reject having a full-page ad for your project/product, if it´s free? I bet you wouldn´t.

So, a NetRexx project on SourceForge.net will only bring more people to it. You could simply create a NetRexx project on SF.net and upload the same files which are now hosted on NetRexx.org.

(I would go as far as to say that SourceForge.net is even better for distributing files, as the SF.net binaries are mirrored on dozens of Sourceforge mirror sites world-wide, and downloaders get the files closer to them. This is not a big deal for small projects like NetRexx but it surely helps others with bigger files).

Just my $0.02...
FC

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[ThSITC]

Hi Rene, and all:

I agree with Rene: Source Code should be only on ONE place.
namely org.netrexx.    (located anywhere in the Cloud)

Otherwise we all will get headaches :-(
Thomas.
======================================================
Am 22.06.2011 20:56, schrieb René Jansen:

I agree with that - multiple places for the distributable package is cool; but the source really should be in one place.

best regards,

René.

On 22 jun 2011, at 20:28, Joe Niffen wrote:

I think NetRexx should also be listed or available at the download.cnet.com website too.
http://download.cnet.com/windows/

Perl and Python are located there.
The more places the better.

Joe


On 6/22/2011 9:05 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote:

Don´t you think it would be helpful to have NetRexx as a project listed in SourceForge.net too?.

Don´t get me wrong NetRexx.org is nice, but when/if (knock on wood, hope that never happens) it dissapears one day, the files disappear with it. (I don´t mean voluntarily disappear, imagine one day someone forgets to renew the netrexx.org domain name and it´s taken over by spammers -it happened to me with one of my domains).

In any case, I think the more views the project gets, the more people will get attracted to it. Think of it in terms of having advertising in as many printed magazines as possible. Would you reject having a full-page ad for your project/product, if it´s free? I bet you wouldn´t.

So, a NetRexx project on SourceForge.net will only bring more people to it. You could simply create a NetRexx project on SF.net and upload the same files which are now hosted on NetRexx.org.

(I would go as far as to say that SourceForge.net is even better for distributing files, as the SF.net binaries are mirrored on dozens of Sourceforge mirror sites world-wide, and downloaders get the files closer to them. This is not a big deal for small projects like NetRexx but it surely helps others with bigger files).

Just my $0.02...
FC

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[KP Kirchdörfer]

Am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2011, 20:45:03 schrieben Sie:

> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 15:35, Alan Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > In a similar vein; there is considerable hostility towards Oracle too,

> > particularly in the Open Source arena.  Should we reconsider using Kenai

> > too?  It's wholly owned by Oracle even if it is free.

>

> Both target different audiences.

>

> People who are "into Java" will surely look at Java.net/Kenai

>

> People who are "into linux" (and BSD) will look for stuff on SourceForge.

>

> Different communities, for different audiences.

>

> As NetRexx is of interest both to Linux devs *and* the Java crowd, my

> point is that it makes sense to be on both. It´s just an entry

> describing the project, after all. Uploads could then be

> "automagically" mirrored from NetRexx.org to the other sites...

I'd consider it as a bad habit to "misuse" project-hosters like sourceforge just for advertisement, and a fast way to annoy (parts of) the open source community.

There are sites available reserved for announcing and advertising a project like freshmeat.net.

There are probably more useful tasks than maintaning releases and sources , to get the attention of new users, like providing deb packages (and make it into the debian based distros), rpm packages etc., providing useful changelogs, documenations, faqs, bug tracking (triage and feedback), developer blogs....

And I don't take your argument about a single point of failure. The release process is often a lot of work if you do it right, and deploying and syncing sources and binaries on more than one site introduces multiple points of failure. Also the tools and rules of the project hosting site changes from time to time - that needs also maintenance.

I'm hosting a project on SF for more than eight years, and even SF had sometimes problems, availability of the project was over 99%. I can't ask for more given that it is free.

kp

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[Fernando Cassia-2]

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 18:36, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Aha I see the problem here.
>
> There is quite a difference between the sourcecode repository,

Sorry, probably my fault: I never talked about source code
repositories, CVS and the like.  Of course that should be done on a
single server.

My proposal was simply to create project descriptions on all three
sites, and upload the binaries (compiler and runtime) there.

Of course, if there´s regular .tar.gz collections of the source code,
those could be uploaded as well. But all Java.net / Sourceforge.net
projects should point to netrexx.org as the official site. They´d just
act as "promotional spots" or "showcase booths" if you like... so if
someone searches for Rexx or Netrexx on either site they´re able to
see the runtime/compiler and grab it.

FC

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[Fernando Cassia-2]

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 18:13, Michael Dag <[hidden email]> wrote:
> IBM is not a mass-market company and it will never will be... period!

Well, it was. And it was the time when I was attracted to IBM. You
could buy OS/2 Warp, IBM Antivirus, IBM HomePage Builder for your home
PC, and you could also download and use IBM IC Phone to talk with
friends (VOIP) over the Net.

You could also purchase IBM Viavoice (sadly for Win95, IBM was never
convinced to port continuous speech to OS/2, leaving OS/2 Warp 4.0
with the previous discrete speech, Voicetype) from your favorite
software retailer.

I bet you never heard about Team OS/2?. Those were exciting times...

FC
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[Michael Dag]

FC,
painful reminder... although the times were great indeed the disappointment was huge...

I was one of the founding members of TEAM OS/2 Netherlands, I was in close contact with
our fairy Godmother Janet, was among the first to be at official IBM stands not wearing a suit!  
and still have a lot of memorabilia left (I still own the famous blue ninja and NT "Not There" t-shirts...)

I left IBM after 16 years, still proud to have been an IBMer and probably more blue then many IBMers today,
but times have changed...

let's have some fun with NetRexx and see if we can re-ignite it ;-)

PS ... want to re-live some of the excitement? HAL-PC 1993 OS/2 vs NT Shootout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnLmtuA42N8 ;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fernando Cassia
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 19:30
To: IBM Netrexx
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] NetRexx project on SourceForge?

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 18:13, Michael Dag <[hidden email]> wrote:
> IBM is not a mass-market company and it will never will be... period!

Well, it was. And it was the time when I was attracted to IBM. You
could buy OS/2 Warp, IBM Antivirus, IBM HomePage Builder for your home
PC, and you could also download and use IBM IC Phone to talk with
friends (VOIP) over the Net.

You could also purchase IBM Viavoice (sadly for Win95, IBM was never
convinced to port continuous speech to OS/2, leaving OS/2 Warp 4.0
with the previous discrete speech, Voicetype) from your favorite
software retailer.

I bet you never heard about Team OS/2?. Those were exciting times...

FC
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[Fernando Cassia-2]

On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 15:36, Michael Dag <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ft (I still own the famous blue ninja and NT "Not There" t-shirts...)

Yes, got one of those. Although I guess I no longer fit inside it. ;)

> I left IBM after 16 years, still proud to have been an IBMer and probably more blue then many IBMers today,
> but times have changed...

Nothing prevents any firm from taking the end-user mass market.
Microsoft and Apple weren´t always mass market.

In fact, I tried (unsuccesfully) to convince Sun Microsystems that
they should have pushed its Java Desktop System Linux as what Ubuntu
is today. I failed. But hey, I tried.

> let's have some fun with NetRexx and see if we can re-ignite it ;-)

Of course. I´m a Java (OpenJDK) grasroots advocate today. It´s the
only technology capable of setting a level playing field. And no, I
don´t buy the current fad that everything must be on the cloud.

Cloud computing is the first step to turning software into a service,
and users away from controlling it. In my own words, Cloud Computing
is "The fine art of separating people from their software". ;)

> PS ... want to re-live some of the excitement? HAL-PC 1993 OS/2 vs NT Shootout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnLmtuA42N8 ;-)

Got that one on VHS, sent from from some IBMer in Austin.
Great memories, indeed.

FC

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[Robert L Hamilton]

You get only one chance to make a first impression. Let's spend the time in  
These discussions to get pro-looking
Display for NetRexx. E. G. You can find several different ways print the word -- Netrexx, NetRexx, NETREXX. JUst trivial things that show a pro approach to our product.

BOB HAMILTON

Sent from my iPhone
Enjoy your day
Bob Hamilton

On Jun 23, 2011, at 10:19 AM, KP Kirchdoerfer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2011, 20:45:03 schrieben Sie:
> > On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 15:35, Alan Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > In a similar vein; there is considerable hostility towards Oracle too,
> > > particularly in the Open Source arena.  Should we reconsider using Kenai
> > > too?  It's wholly owned by Oracle even if it is free.
> >
> > Both target different audiences.
> >
> > People who are "into Java" will surely look at Java.net/Kenai
> >
> > People who are "into linux" (and BSD) will look for stuff on SourceForge.
> >
> > Different communities, for different audiences.
> >
> > As NetRexx is of interest both to Linux devs *and* the Java crowd, my
> > point is that it makes sense to be on both. It´s just an entry
> > describing the project, after all. Uploads could then be
> > "automagically" mirrored from NetRexx.org to the other sites...
>
> I'd consider it as a bad habit to "misuse" project-hosters like sourceforge just for advertisement, and a fast way to annoy (parts of) the open source community.
> There are sites available reserved for announcing and advertising a project like freshmeat.net.
>
> There are probably more useful tasks than maintaning releases and sources , to get the attention of new users, like providing deb packages (and make it into the debian based distros), rpm packages etc., providing useful changelogs, documenations, faqs, bug tracking (triage and feedback), developer blogs....
>
> And I don't take your argument about a single point of failure. The release process is often a lot of work if you do it right, and deploying and syncing sources and binaries on more than one site introduces multiple points of failure. Also the tools and rules of the project hosting site changes from time to time - that needs also maintenance.
> I'm hosting a project on SF for more than eight years, and even SF had sometimes problems, availability of the project was over 99%. I can't ask for more given that it is free.
>
> kp
> _______________________________________________
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