Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
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Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
 
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On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 15:04, Thomas.Schneider.Wien (JIRA)
<[hidden email]> wrote: > CURLEY Braces ('{', and '}' Oh, please, no CURLY braces, no... http://www.dzone.com/links/javafx_curly_brace_overdose.html FC _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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I'd rather see support for Java enums brought into NetRexx. (Some form of template support would be nice too. i.e. splat = Vector< Rexx >; etc.)
alan.
On 9 September 2011 12:59, Fernando Cassia <[hidden email]> wrote: On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 15:04, Thomas.Schneider.Wien (JIRA) Can't tweet, won't tweet! _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
Alan
-- Needs more cowbell. |
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In reply to this post by Fernando Cassia-2
Hello Fernando, and all:
CURLEY BRACES are a meahnwhile INVENTIONED Notation to DENOTE sets ! Think about it a bit, and give me still some time, to show you some *advance release* Rey-Language code using it ... Thomas. PS: Rey is an acronym for: Rexx for Java . ========================================================== Am 09.09.2011 21:59, schrieb Fernando Cassia: > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 15:04, Thomas.Schneider.Wien (JIRA) > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> CURLEY Braces ('{', and '}' > Oh, please, no CURLY braces, no... > > http://www.dzone.com/links/javafx_curly_brace_overdose.html > > FC > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ > > -- Thomas Schneider (Founder of www.thsitc.com) Member of the Rexx Languge Asscociation (www.rexxla.org) Member of the NetRexx Developer's Team (www.netrexx.org) _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
Thomas Schneider, Vienna, Austria (Europe) :-)
www.thsitc.com www.db-123.com |
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In reply to this post by alansam
Hi Alan, and all,
YOU GOT the intention!! Bravo. :-) Let's discuss this idea, with patience, please. :-) It's just one of them, how make NetRexx *much more EASIER* to use, than Java, and keep it *as the superior language*! Thomas. PS: Rene, please do introduce 2 new categories at KENAI: NetRexxC 3.02 NetRexxC 4.00 so that we cann collect any and all new ideas under the proper categories. Meanwhile, I will continue to complete my own stuff ... ;-) ============================================================ Am 09.09.2011 23:05, schrieb Alan Sampson: I'd rather see support for Java enums brought into NetRexx. (Some form of template support would be nice too. i.e. splat = Vector< Rexx >; etc.) --
Thomas Schneider (Founder of www.thsitc.com) Member of the Rexx Languge Asscociation (www.rexxla.org) Member of the NetRexx Developer's Team (www.netrexx.org) _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
Thomas Schneider, Vienna, Austria (Europe) :-)
www.thsitc.com www.db-123.com |
Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
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In reply to this post by ThSITC
Hi Thomas,
1) I asked the group some time ago why curly brackets aren't employed in NetRexx; the answer, if I remember correctly, is that they have poor legibility and can be confused with square brackets or parens. 2) You have proposed quite a few novel constructs for NetRexx. I am not sure that they are not worthy, but I worry that novelties tend to have unintended consequences, and that NetRexx might become incoherent through promiscuous inclusion of features. Perhaps your ideas could first be tested in Rey, and those that survive that laboratory then proposed for NetRexx. George On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Thomas Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote: Hello Fernando, and all: _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
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In reply to this post by ThSITC
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 18:35, Thomas Schneider
<[hidden email]> wrote: > > CURLEY BRACES are a meahnwhile INVENTIONED Notation to DENOTE sets ! I hate curly braces, for one simple reason: I find those difficult to type with the Spanish language keyboard layout (I switch between US and Spanish layouts all the time). I'd rather prefer it to use square brackets [] FC _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
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In reply to this post by George Hovey-2
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 21:07, George Hovey <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You have proposed quite a few novel constructs for NetRexx. I am not sure > that they are not worthy, but I worry that novelties tend to have unintended > consequences, and that NetRexx might become incoherent through promiscuous > inclusion of features. Perhaps your ideas could first be tested in Rey, and > those that survive that laboratory then proposed for NetRexx. I agree with George. Just because NetRexx has become Open Source it doesn't mean we should begin adding new syntax and commands to it until it becomes unrecognizable. I'm sure MFC spent quite a while of time thinking of the best syntax and commands, for us to turn it upside down in a matter of months. This is one of the few instances when I'm actually a conservative. ;-) I see this with Java.. there's this deside of continuously tweak it adding new features and new syntax ... and for what? to "keep up with what other languages are doing". While power users might want to engage in an "syntax arms race", I'd rather not. Let's remember that old engineering adage that goes along the lines of K.I.S.S. (Keep it Simple, S...eriously...) FC _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
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In reply to this post by Fernando Cassia-2
Fernando,
If you're using jEdit you can assign "abbreviations" to troublesome sequences. George On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Fernando Cassia <[hidden email]> wrote: On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 18:35, Thomas Schneider _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
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In reply to this post by Fernando Cassia-2
"Less is more."
-- Mies van der Rohe On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Fernando Cassia <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
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FWIW -- Let's try to leave NetRexx alone. Every time I think of something additional, I go for a walk or mow some of the yard. The urge to change NetRexx goes away. JM2CW
Robert L Hamilton, Engineer Richardson Texas USA _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
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In reply to this post by ThSITC
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 18:35, Thomas Schneider
<[hidden email]> wrote: > CURLEY BRACES are a meahnwhile INVENTIONED Notation to DENOTE sets ! On a US keyboard, square brackets are a single key press... next to the P you've got individual keys for [ ] And for curly braces you've got to press SHIFT + the wanted bracket key so Shift + [ = { ... that' s two key presses. Now, examine the Spanish keyboard layout... clearly that layout is programmer-hostile, what is a single keypress in a US layout, for instance the backslash: \ in the Spanish keyboard becomes AltGr + ` in order to get \, and due to the distance between keys, that becomes a two-hands operation... the right hand presses AltGr and the left hand reaches out to the ` In addition to that, the Spanish layout uses separate key sets for square brackets and curly braces, requiring the use of AltGr too. So, besides the aesthetic considerations, I have functional reasons to hate the use of CURLY braces in a programming language. Square brackets are just as useful and easier to type, thanks very much. FC -- "Si, yo creo en los objetos. Inclusive más que en los seres humanos. Creo que son más fieles ¿no?. Porque, claro, los seres humanos pueden traicionarte, pero los objetos no, a los objetos los traicionamos nosotros." -Manuel Mujica Laines _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
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In reply to this post by George Hovey-2
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 5:26 AM, George Hovey <[hidden email]> wrote: "Less is more." "My approach is ... don't put anything in unless it's really, really necessary, because then you end up with a really small language with few notations, and you make people happy for a different set of reasons" [compared to having the language do everything anyone asks for]. -- MFC, contrasting the design philosophy behind Rexx with that behind Perl. (http://drdobbs.com/184409842) Hugh -- _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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On 10 September 2011 07:16, Hugh Sweeney <[hidden email]> wrote:
Adding syntactic sugar into the language buys nothing extra over what can be achieved with a well designed utility class. I have to use Perl professionally and I can attest that it's not a language that can be used without a reference manual open at your side (figuratively speaking); there are at least five different ways to express an IF/ELSE clause! I don't need to do that with NetRexx and I'd like to keep it that way.
Alan.
Can't tweet, won't tweet! _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
Alan
-- Needs more cowbell. |
Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
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Hear, Hear.
What might be considered, is a Documented Procedure to modify NetRexx should the need arise. Bob Hamilton Richardson Texas USA On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Alan Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Fernando Cassia-2
Hello Fernando, Suqare Brackets are reserved for Arrays (or also,
Indexed Strings) in NetRexx :-) Thomas. ========================================================= Am 10.09.2011 02:13, schrieb Fernando Cassia: > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 18:35, Thomas Schneider > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> CURLEY BRACES are a meahnwhile INVENTIONED Notation to DENOTE sets ! > I hate curly braces, for one simple reason: I find those difficult to > type with the Spanish language keyboard layout (I switch between US > and Spanish layouts all the time). > > I'd rather prefer it to use square brackets [] > > FC > > _______________________________________________ > Ibm-netrexx mailing list > [hidden email] > Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ > > -- Thomas Schneider (Founder of www.thsitc.com) Member of the Rexx Languge Asscociation (www.rexxla.org) Member of the NetRexx Developer's Team (www.netrexx.org) _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
Thomas Schneider, Vienna, Austria (Europe) :-)
www.thsitc.com www.db-123.com |
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In reply to this post by George Hovey-2
Hello George, and all,
*that's exactly what my plan is* To make a *reference implementation first*, with the proper samples, and incorporate it later, when wanted / needed, in a future release of NetRexx. I am only entering those ideas as issues in the NetRexx project so that we have some time to discuss them. NO need for *instant implementation*. Thus I entered MetRexxC 4.00 for the environment. I do personally think that ANNOTATIONS and GENERICS are of much more current interest, as well as a good NrxDoc tool (but I do think Rener has already one).... Have a nice weekend. Thomas. ========================================================= Am 10.09.2011 02:07, schrieb George Hovey: Hi Thomas, --
Thomas Schneider (Founder of www.thsitc.com) Member of the Rexx Languge Asscociation (www.rexxla.org) Member of the NetRexx Developer's Team (www.netrexx.org) _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
Thomas Schneider, Vienna, Austria (Europe) :-)
www.thsitc.com www.db-123.com |
Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
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In reply to this post by alansam
Thomas has offered some useful suggestions. Granted that most of his
requests can be handled by the proper use of existing features
without cluttering up NetRexx syntax with unneeded complications, I
don't think you need to worry. Neither the developers nor the ARB
will allow the simplicity of NetRexx to be destroyed.
But NetRexx has been barely maintained and has not been developed at all for about 10 years while Java has been changing rapidly. The truth is that NetRexx is no longer a Java compatible language. It must change significantly to handle the current features of Java and to fix the numerous problems that have developed over that time. We have already begun to address some of the needed changes such as support for Collections, Charsequences, and in-memory compilation. Other issues like NetRexx's failure to extend classes like Printstream, lack of support for enums, generics, etc., will require more in-depth knowledge of the translator to fix. Meanwhile, just remember that many things that have been added to Java, such as the "switch" on strings in Java 1.7 have been in NetRexx ("select") from the start. Java is still playing catchup with NetRexx! -- Kermit On 9/10/2011 8:19 AM, Alan Sampson wrote:
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Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
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Kermit,
I'm in absolute agreement with your, and Alan's views on making NetRexx a better Java a principal goal. Aside from its intrinsic value, this could have other benefits. Contrary to the predictions of some, the release of the source has not produced an influx of outside talent capable of aiding the development effort. The people willing and able to take the lead were here all along. But they are thin on the ground. If NetRexx can gain some traction in the Java world we might attract some top-flight Java people to this effort. That could be the tippling point. George On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Kermit Kiser <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: [JIRA] Created: (NETREXX-46) Introduce a new, meaningful, NOTATION for VALUE-SET's
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In reply to this post by ThSITC
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 15:08, Thomas Schneider
<[hidden email]> wrote: > Hello Fernando, Suqare Brackets are reserved for Arrays (or also, Indexed > Strings) in NetRexx :-) Use Double square brackets... anything but curly braces. Makes me think I´m writhing musical notation or something. I know it´s irrational, but also I know I´m not the only one. On desktops, I just use a US layout keyboard. On laptops on the contrary, while I used to get laptops from the USA, it´s not more cost effective to buy one locally, and those all come with the darn Spanish layout... http://blogs.imeta.co.uk/HHariri/archive/2009/08/22/spanish-keyboard-layout-for-c-developers.aspx "I use a Spanish Keyboard which is kind of a nuisance when developing in C#. It’s mainly due to the key layout for curly braces. Every time you need curly braces, you have to press AltGr (Ctrl+Alt) along with another key. Other annoying keys are the semicolon and the square brackets." And no, I don´t feel like editing keymaps just to fix a poorly designed Spanish layout... FC _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by George Hovey-2
On 9/10/11 22:29 George Hovey said:
> If NetRexx can gain some traction in the Java world we might attract > some top-flight Java people to this effort. That could be the tippling > point. Yeah, writing lots of Java can really drive you to drink, George! ;-)) [Yes, I know it was just a typo, but it was too good to let pass.] -Chip- _______________________________________________ Ibm-netrexx mailing list [hidden email] Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/ |
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